Missing Engine Log Book

As others have pointed out (and I won't belabor their points) this is not
true.

Jim


"Denny" wrote in message
ups.com...
The engine is worth it's core value only - the log book is what makes
an engine CERTIFIED...

Well, simple enough to find out for sure... He can call the FSDO and
ask them if he makes up a logbook is the engine airworthy... Be
interesting for him to report back to us... I'm always willing to
learn...

denny

Denny wrote:
Well, simple enough to find out for sure... He can call the FSDO and
ask them if he makes up a logbook is the engine airworthy... Be
interesting for him to report back to us... I'm always willing to
learn...

There's really no requirement to have a logbook for the engine at
all. There are record keeping requirements, but they don't specify you
have to have everything in some type of book.

That said, to be airworthy, all of the ADs on the engine have to be
signed off somewhere. While reciepts with hours and details of work
might be informative, unless they are properly signed off (unlikely),
that doesn't satisfy the requirements. I would think that you'd have
to get the proper signoffs before the engine was airworthy. This might
be a simple as having the original signer recreate the entries in a new
logbook, or as difficult as having all applicable ADs performed again.


John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

"Denny" writes:

Well, simple enough to find out for sure... He can call the FSDO and
ask them if he makes up a logbook is the engine airworthy... Be
interesting for him to report back to us... I'm always willing to
learn...

Why do you think "the logbook" is needed?

Can you point out where the FARs speak of "logbook"?

What are the FAR stated requirements for this "logbook"?

How long must one keep this "logbook"?

-jav

Airplanes are bought and sold every day with some/all the logs missing.
It does not affect airworthiness, just the value.



Denny wrote:
Well, simple enough to find out for sure... He can call the FSDO and
ask them if he makes up a logbook is the engine airworthy... Be
interesting for him to report back to us... I'm always willing to
learn...

denny

"Newps" wrote in message
...
Airplanes are bought and sold every day with some/all the logs missing.
It does not affect airworthiness, just the value.


Which is what the OP was asking --- how much would they discount the value.

Depends. The real value is the airframe log. I wouldn't really care
much about the engine or prop log.



Matt Barrow wrote:
"Newps" wrote in message
...

Airplanes are bought and sold every day with some/all the logs missing.
It does not affect airworthiness, just the value.



Which is what the OP was asking --- how much would they discount the value.

Hmmm, lots of opinions...
In spite of contrary opinions from folks in the group, until the engine
is found to be airworthy I will continue to maintain that engine has
core value only... He can't prove that the connecting rod numbers are
correct, that the bearing numbers are correct, that the internal bolts
were correctly torqued, and on, and on - and there is no signature
attesting that the field repairs (overhaul) done meets the
manufacturer's specs (it takes more than the data plate on the case to
be a certified airworthy engine)...
Now, some of our august mechanic members are making noises like they
would be willing to sign their license # that the engine is
airworthy... But, I wonder if they actually would if it was in their
shop??? The bottom line is that the engine has to be opened up, part
numbers verified, parts measured for manufacturers tolerances, AD's
verified, and then reassembled, and someone has to put his professional
license on the line by signing a log of the work done and declaring the
engine airworthy... Probably what Jim/Newps, maybe $3000 for labor,
plus gaskets? Not a big deal, but it has to be done... If I were
considering buying the plane, the purchase offer would include that
work as a contingency... And I haven't seen anything about the prop
log?

Just remember Jack, the old adage - fall in love and you get screwed in
the end...

denny

denny

Denny wrote:
Hmmm, lots of opinions...
In spite of contrary opinions from folks in the group, until the engine
is found to be airworthy I will continue to maintain that engine has
core value only... He can't prove that the connecting rod numbers are
correct, that the bearing numbers are correct, that the internal bolts
were correctly torqued, and on, and on -

He couldn't prove that with the log book either.

If he can get the appropriate records from the overhaul shop
(the form formerly known as the yellow tag) and can verify
the mainenance since, then there's no real airworthiness
problem (either in actuality or in the FAA paperwork realm).

Now, some of our august mechanic members are making noises like they
would be willing to sign their license # that the engine is
airworthy...

Actually, we were talking about the shop that did the annual providing
a new copy of the statement that on such and such a data... found
airworthy.

If, on the other hand, someone brought an engine into a shop, never
before seen, no logs... then yes, the AI has a bigger task on his
hands. First, the engine isn't airworthy without an annual inspection,
so he has to do that. I don't see (from that alone) any necessity to
do any more than the normal tests. No need (for just that) to tear
down the engine.

But then we hit the second snag. AD's. He also has to be able to sign
off that they are all complete and HOW they were performed. [We tend
to forget that second point.] Without logs, there is a good chance
that one of THOSE may require a teardown. And you are correct, the
cost of that may likely (depending upon engine and AD's) turn out to be
the cost of a full overhaul.

I think the problem many of us had with your original post was the use
of the word "CERTIFIED" instead of "airworthy." The engine is certified
if it has the correct data plate on it. I can find an old IO-360
rusting away in the back yard of a house I bought. Is it certified?
Sure, if the data plate is still attached. Is it airworthy? Almost
certainly not, neither from a legal nor mechanical standpoint.