Wow, C150 = Time Saver = Awesome 3 Days.

Ah, that figures.
Me being a true flatlander, I was not immediately aware of the
possibility of those landscape features ;-)

-Kees

On 2005-06-28, Greg Farris wrote:
The only "imperfect" element was that in Europe you cannot fly into large,
ommercial airports - at any cost

That may be true of France, but remember that Europe is not a country
any more than North America is a country. It is an agglomeration of
(mostly) sovereign nations and what may be true in France is not
necessarily true in Italy or Poland.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

In article ,
says...

That may be true of France, but remember that Europe is not a country
any more than North America is a country. It is an agglomeration of
(mostly) sovereign nations and what may be true in France is not
necessarily true in Italy or Poland.



I cannot help but think that your rejoinder would have been more informative
had you offered at least one example. In fact, unless and until you do so (or
someone does) I will stand by my generalization, which I believe to be a
reasonably accurate one.

We read many reports here of people flying Cessnas into Logan, Reagan even
JFK. Obviously they do not simply "show up" there at 5:00PM on 45° for
downwind 04R! It involves off-peak planning etc, but it is possible. They last
one to try that in Paris spent some time on the stinky side of an iron cage,
and may never see the left seat again!

I know that EDDM (Munich) has gone further than many recent constructions in
offering services to General Aviation - but they do specify that you have to
be IFR and over 2T/MTOW to land there, which rules out everything up to and
including a C-182.

You make an interesting point about the "new" extended Europe. My guess would
be that the former east-bloc nations would be even more rule and restriction
bound than the traditional Europe, but I admit I've never flown there, and I
don't know. Do you?

G Faris

Greg Farris wrote:

In article ,
says...

That may be true of France, but remember that Europe is not a country
any more than North America is a country. It is an agglomeration of
(mostly) sovereign nations and what may be true in France is not
necessarily true in Italy or Poland.




I cannot help but think that your rejoinder would have been more informative
had you offered at least one example. In fact, unless and until you do so (or
someone does) I will stand by my generalization, which I believe to be a
reasonably accurate one.

We read many reports here of people flying Cessnas into Logan, Reagan even
JFK. Obviously they do not simply "show up" there at 5:00PM on 45° for
downwind 04R! It involves off-peak planning etc, but it is possible. They last
one to try that in Paris spent some time on the stinky side of an iron cage,
and may never see the left seat again!

I know that EDDM (Munich) has gone further than many recent constructions in
offering services to General Aviation - but they do specify that you have to
be IFR and over 2T/MTOW to land there, which rules out everything up to and
including a C-182.

You make an interesting point about the "new" extended Europe. My guess would
be that the former east-bloc nations would be even more rule and restriction
bound than the traditional Europe, but I admit I've never flown there, and I
don't know. Do you?

G Faris

The European Union should fix all the difference. Right?

Wrong.

The EU has its legislation but every member state can have its own,
including aviation.
So when it comes to aviation you first have ICAO, then EU, then state
regulations.
The last ones give you the real headaches when flying from country to
country.

And every airport can decide what traffic they welcome or not.
The discussion was that large airports do not welcome GA, but on a
smaller scale some airfields are off limits to UL and things like that.

-Kees

On 2005-06-29, Greg Farris wrote:
In article ,
says...

That may be true of France, but remember that Europe is not a country
any more than North America is a country. It is an agglomeration of
(mostly) sovereign nations and what may be true in France is not
necessarily true in Italy or Poland.

I cannot help but think that your rejoinder would have been more informative
had you offered at least one example. In fact, unless and until you do so (or
someone does) I will stand by my generalization, which I believe to be a
reasonably accurate one.

Your assertion was:
On 2005-06-28, Greg Farris wrote:
The only "imperfect" element was that in Europe you cannot fly into
large, ommercial airports - at any cost

Birmingham airport (EGBB) serves the UK's second largest city. It
certainly fits the bill as a 'large commercial airport' most of the
traffic consisting of domestic and international airline flights.

I have flown a Grumman Cheetah into EGBB.

Liverpool Airport has a GA flying club. It is also a large commercial
airport.

Manchester Airport is a major international airport, with airline
flights to and from the United States. I have seen GA aircraft,
including little ones like Piper Tomahawks, parked at Manchester.

The UK is part of the European Union. Most of the thrust of my post was
in any case to point out that Europe is NOT a country any more than
North America, so something that is true in France is not necessarily
true in Britain, Poland, Czech Republic, Malta or Ireland.

For another example, in Britain you can fly a G registered plane using
your FAA pilot certificate with no paperwork at all. I believe Ireland
has the same allowance for IE registered aircraft. However, in France
you need to obtain a JAR license prior to flying an F registered
aircraft.

You make an interesting point about the "new" extended Europe. My guess would
be that the former east-bloc nations would be even more rule and restriction
bound than the traditional Europe, but I admit I've never flown there, and I
don't know. Do you?

No, but as my first post said which you objected to - they won't be the
same as France because Europe is not a country. I was merely trying to
enlighten people in the US who may (from your posting) assume European
states are a bit like states in the US - a Federal system of
non-sovereign states and a Federal aviation system - where it is not.
Europe is not a country consisting of a number of federated states with
a single aviation system - it is an agglomeration of sovereign nations
and what holds true for France does not necessarily hold true for Italy
or the UK.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

For bug smasher planes cruising between 100-125kt, the sweet spot of
straight line travel distance is about 200 - 300nm. Assuming you have
someone picking you up at the destination, you can make a round trip in
a day while still have plenty of time spent at the destination, or make
the trip in two days and have a ton of time at the destination.

Most of the time the freeway distance is about 20% longer due to not
being a straight line. A 200-300nm distance will take a car 4-6 hours
of driving time, that makes a very tiring one day round trip. Even a
two day driving trip to a place 200-300nm away feels like driving a lot
on both days.