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#1
August 10th 03, 10:57 AM
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On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 21:45:30 +0000, Scott
wrote: Nah, you don't want to use composer. Real Men and Women write in HTML!  Been there, Doing that for 5 years now... After using Netscape composer, MS Word, and MS Front Page I try to do almost all of my HTML by hand coding. I sometimes use Front Page, but only after creating the page first. Never create one in Front Page. It creates huge files of bloat code and adds about 3 to 5 pages of definitions at the beginning. I only used composer a couple of times and it took several days to get the page back to normal, but FP is bad and saving in HTML from a Word doc is worse. Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2) Scott http://corbenflyer.tripod.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ParasolAirplanes Building RV-4 Gotta Fly or Gonna Die! Jerry Wass wrote: Yeah Man! Thanks Ron ! I was just tryin to learn how to do that--my network provider will give me a site, & the best thing--(I didn't know till you told me) My Nutscrape 4.8 has the Composer too!!--2WINGS2U--Jerry RobertR237 wrote: Hey Ron, Ok, now that I am infamous, where are the riches you promised. Just got my September issue of KitPlanes and saw the story on Building a Home Page. Great article and I was pleased to see my Web Page in the composite shot at the beginning of the article. I was really surprised to see a much larger shot and caption on one of the following pages. Thanks for the coverage and I am watching the mailbox every day for that fortune you promised. ;-) Bob Reed www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site) KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress.... "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!" (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman) 
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#2
August 10th 03, 02:38 PM
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All right you computer guys! Why is it that there are more and more web sites that
Netscape can't read? How are they programming, and why? Damn, it's frustrating! Warren Roger Halstead wrote: On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 21:45:30 +0000, Scott wrote: Nah, you don't want to use composer. Real Men and Women write in HTML! Been there, Doing that for 5 years now... After using Netscape composer, MS Word, and MS Front Page I try to do almost all of my HTML by hand coding. I sometimes use Front Page, but only after creating the page first. Never create one in Front Page. It creates huge files of bloat code and adds about 3 to 5 pages of definitions at the beginning. I only used composer a couple of times and it took several days to get the page back to normal, but FP is bad and saving in HTML from a Word doc is worse. Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2) Scott http://corbenflyer.tripod.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ParasolAirplanes Building RV-4 Gotta Fly or Gonna Die! Jerry Wass wrote: Yeah Man! Thanks Ron ! I was just tryin to learn how to do that--my network provider will give me a site, & the best thing--(I didn't know till you told me) My Nutscrape 4.8 has the Composer too!!--2WINGS2U--Jerry RobertR237 wrote: Hey Ron, Ok, now that I am infamous, where are the riches you promised. Just got my September issue of KitPlanes and saw the story on Building a Home Page. Great article and I was pleased to see my Web Page in the composite shot at the beginning of the article. I was really surprised to see a much larger shot and caption on one of the following pages. Thanks for the coverage and I am watching the mailbox every day for that fortune you promised. ;-) Bob Reed www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site) KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress.... "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!" (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)
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#3
August 10th 03, 07:55 PM
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On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 08:38:21 -0400, Warren & Nancy
wrote: All right you computer guys! Why is it that there are more and more web sites that Netscape can't read? How are they programming, and why? The composers are using MS applications that are not completely NS compliant. The latest incarnation of NS reads almost anything IE does and it's one whale of a lot better than the earlier versions. Particularly Vs 6 which was so bad I took it off the machines. I've not been keeping up on it but the latest versions of MS office and Front Page use XHTML (Extended HTML) and Netscape can not interpret some of the commands. Course even the earlier versions of ME IE and Netscape, what ever version, were not completely compatible. If for instance you program a page using Front Page, the thing sets up links to runs some of the code from the MS site which includes the version, who did it, and a bunch of other stuff. Not that I'd accuse MS of intentionally writing stuff that wouldn't run on other peoples browsers... FP and Word create code that is huge. A really big list of definitions at the beginning and then they format *every* line. Even if it's a big paragraph they still format every line. You can easily end up with 3 to 5 lines of formatting code for one short line of text. That means a ten line paragraph could end up taking 50 lines of source which adds to the time to load the page. It's bloated and sloppy programming, but it makes it easy for the beginner to create a fancy page with flashing banners, crawling text, and changing colors that are pretty, but difficult to read and disliked by most users. For me it's far easier to save the word doc as a text file and then add the HTML tags. Frames were considered bad form for some time. Now, many pages use them. If not overdone they are kinda handy. HTML itself only has about a couple dozen commands, but they can be used in many ways It's very straight forward and easy to use if you don't try to get too fancy. and it's a pain for e-mail and news groups. Both my mail and news readers are set for plain text only to prevent malicious code and tracking means to be loaded. OTOH XHML has quite a few more commands. Again it will pull some of the operating procedures from links. Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2) Damn, it's frustrating! Warren Roger Halstead wrote: On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 21:45:30 +0000, Scott wrote: Nah, you don't want to use composer. Real Men and Women write in HTML! Been there, Doing that for 5 years now... After using Netscape composer, MS Word, and MS Front Page I try to do almost all of my HTML by hand coding. I sometimes use Front Page, but only after creating the page first. Never create one in Front Page. It creates huge files of bloat code and adds about 3 to 5 pages of definitions at the beginning. I only used composer a couple of times and it took several days to get the page back to normal, but FP is bad and saving in HTML from a Word doc is worse. Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2) Scott http://corbenflyer.tripod.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ParasolAirplanes Building RV-4 Gotta Fly or Gonna Die! Jerry Wass wrote: Yeah Man! Thanks Ron ! I was just tryin to learn how to do that--my network provider will give me a site, & the best thing--(I didn't know till you told me) My Nutscrape 4.8 has the Composer too!!--2WINGS2U--Jerry RobertR237 wrote: Hey Ron, Ok, now that I am infamous, where are the riches you promised. Just got my September issue of KitPlanes and saw the story on Building a Home Page. Great article and I was pleased to see my Web Page in the composite shot at the beginning of the article. I was really surprised to see a much larger shot and caption on one of the following pages. Thanks for the coverage and I am watching the mailbox every day for that fortune you promised. ;-) Bob Reed www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site) KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress.... "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!" (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)
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#4
August 10th 03, 10:30 PM
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Warren & Nancy wrote:
All right you computer guys! Why is it that there are more and more web sites that Netscape can't read? How are they programming, and why? Damn, it's frustrating! Warren HTML is an evolving specification. What your old browser knows of HTML 4.01 and style sheets is likely wrong and/or incomplete, hence the poor rendering. Style sheets are here to stay -- they obviate the need for much of the formatting that litters older HTML code. As more web programmers migrate to the new specification, more web pages will fail to render correctly in older browsers. The fix, for you, is to update to a current web browser. I recommend Mozilla. Mozilla is the browser upon which the latest Netscape is based. With Mozilla, you'll get the best browser sans the commercial trappings of its Netscape derivative. Once you've experience the tabbed browsing features of Mozilla, you'll never look back. A Mozilla hint: Set preferences so that your middle mouse button (mouse wheel depress) opens a new tab in Mozilla when clicked on a link. Also, set preferences to load new tabs in the background. Another great feature in Mozilla is pop-up control, either globally or on a per-site basis. Don't like that pop-up? Simple, right click it and select "Disallow pop-ups from this site". Mozilla rocks. Don't let the mozilla web site confuse you, it's geared towards programmers and offers ancillary programs that you don't need. All you need is the latest stable release of Mozilla for your platform (Mozilla 1.4 as of this post). Look in the upper left hand corner for the correct download link. http://www.mozilla.org David O -- http://www.AirplaneZone.com
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#5
August 11th 03, 05:01 AM
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Actually, FrontPage 2000 and 2002 are fine for professioanl level stuff as
long as you; 1.) Set the defaults to not have FP change your code 2.) Check your code to make sure it is compliant with whatever spec you declare at the top of your code base at W3C 3.) tweak the little things like META TAGS, title and margin tags We have used FP for 7 years and have built sites for some fortune 100 companies with it. You need to know HTML to know what to fine tune but FP is fine for those who understand it. ALSO, never use frames if you want to rank well in any of the search engines. Frames and iframes break search engine spiders and iframes still don't work in Netscape. IF you check your server logs, you are probably looking at about 2% Netscape usage and about 87% Internet Explorer. Desiging for Netscape is moot point nowadays unless you KNOW you have clients on it or are building a general shopping cart application. From an SEO standpoint, (if you want to be found in the search engines) keep your code clean and up to W3C standards, no matter what editor you use, build great content and get as many in-bound links as you can. James Taylor CEO ww.AICompany.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 8/4/2003
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#6
August 11th 03, 02:40 PM
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The fix, for you, is to update to a current web browser. I recommend Mozilla. Mozilla is the browser upon which the latest Netscape is based. With Mozilla, you'll get the best browser sans the commercial trappings of its Netscape derivative. Once you've experience the tabbed browsing features of Mozilla, you'll never look back. A Mozilla hint: Set preferences so that your middle mouse button (mouse wheel depress) opens a new tab in Mozilla when clicked on a link. Also, set preferences to load new tabs in the background. Another great feature in Mozilla is pop-up control, either globally or on a per-site basis. Don't like that pop-up? Simple, right click it and select "Disallow pop-ups from this site". Mozilla rocks. Don't let the mozilla web site confuse you, it's geared towards programmers and offers ancillary programs that you don't need. All you need is the latest stable release of Mozilla for your platform (Mozilla 1.4 as of this post). Look in the upper left hand corner for the correct download link. http://www.mozilla.org David O -- http://www.AirplaneZone.com +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dave, Mozilla.... ROCKS? I've been "Netscaping" for years, although I've kept Mozilla handy - just in case. Not sure why I never did the opposite. Old habits die hard? Given your expert recommendation... Mozilla is my new default browser. Barnyard BOb - Tastes great while less filling
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#7
August 12th 03, 04:35 AM
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On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 07:40:20 -0500, Barnyard BOb --
wrote: snip I've been "Netscaping" for years, although I've kept Mozilla handy - just in case. Not sure why I never did the opposite. Old habits die hard? Given your expert recommendation... Mozilla is my new default browser. Got the dragon (big lizard?) right next to the Netscrape icon. Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2) Barnyard BOb - Tastes great while less filling
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#8
August 11th 03, 03:24 PM
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Thanks to you and Roger.
David O wrote: Warren & Nancy wrote: All right you computer guys! Why is it that there are more and more web sites that Netscape can't read? How are they programming, and why? Damn, it's frustrating! Warren HTML is an evolving specification. What your old browser knows of HTML 4.01 and style sheets is likely wrong and/or incomplete, hence the poor rendering. Style sheets are here to stay -- they obviate the need for much of the formatting that litters older HTML code. As more web programmers migrate to the new specification, more web pages will fail to render correctly in older browsers. The fix, for you, is to update to a current web browser. I recommend Mozilla. Mozilla is the browser upon which the latest Netscape is based. With Mozilla, you'll get the best browser sans the commercial trappings of its Netscape derivative. Once you've experience the tabbed browsing features of Mozilla, you'll never look back. A Mozilla hint: Set preferences so that your middle mouse button (mouse wheel depress) opens a new tab in Mozilla when clicked on a link. Also, set preferences to load new tabs in the background. Another great feature in Mozilla is pop-up control, either globally or on a per-site basis. Don't like that pop-up? Simple, right click it and select "Disallow pop-ups from this site". Mozilla rocks. Don't let the mozilla web site confuse you, it's geared towards programmers and offers ancillary programs that you don't need. All you need is the latest stable release of Mozilla for your platform (Mozilla 1.4 as of this post). Look in the upper left hand corner for the correct download link. http://www.mozilla.org David O -- http://www.AirplaneZone.com
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#9
August 10th 03, 06:56 PM
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In article , Roger Halstead
writes: After using Netscape composer, MS Word, and MS Front Page I try to do almost all of my HTML by hand coding. I sometimes use Front Page, but only after creating the page first. Never create one in Front Page. It creates huge files of bloat code and adds about 3 to 5 pages of definitions at the beginning. I only used composer a couple of times and it took several days to get the page back to normal, but FP is bad and saving in HTML from a Word doc is worse. Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2) If you would rather spend your time on content instead of HTML then try the AOLPRESS product. It is free and very easy to use. Not fancy by any means but works. Bob Reed www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site) KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress.... "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!" (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)
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