RUN!! Forrest!! RUN!!

ORVAL FAIRAIRN wrote:

The problem, of course is that it takes so damn much raw energy even to
make orbit, so the cost is astronomical. It will remain so until we make
some physics breakthrough that allows true antigravity machines.

But even if we ignore the cost of the energy involved, there's also the cost
of the vehicle. The shuttle was supposed to save that cost by being
reusable.

There were probably other savings intended; it's been a long time those
topics were discussed and I just don't remember anymore.

BTW, there are other places to save on that energy cost besides the ultimate
of antigravity (assuming that it's sufficiently "magical" that one need not
pay the cost of the potential energy gain of climbing into orbit {8^).
Anything that involves expending the energy on the ground, from the fancy
laser ideas to just shoving a large bomb up the tailpipe laugh saves on
the cost of lifting fuel, for example.

- Andrew

Andrew Gideon wrote:

BTW, there are other places to save on that energy cost besides the ultimate
of antigravity (assuming that it's sufficiently "magical" that one need not
pay the cost of the potential energy gain of climbing into orbit {8^).

two words: space elevator! not as crazy as it sounds since
it was suggested seriously in 1957 by Artsutanov or romanticized
later in 1978 by Arthur C. Clarke, a number of key technologies
are coming together (e.g., carbon nanotubes to make a cable
that'd could take it) that might eventually make it practical
before we got antigravity that is :-))

There are a lot of stuff about it on the web, just google away,
e.g., wikipedia, but the following is a good starting point,
from NASA no less:

http://trs.nis.nasa.gov/archive/00000535/


--Sylvain

two words: space elevator!

Two more words: Big TFR.

It's a sure target. So is a vacuum subway tube for orbital speed cross
country transport.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Two more big words "Fairy Tale."

There must be a bigger reason to go to space other than the invention of
Tang and Teflon.

Face it, people are just curious and that's not enough to forget the
problems on the planets surface and justify spending billions on a program
to shoot human beings into low orbit.

If we weren't fighting wars all of the world to the tune of billions a day,
it might make sense to have a space program.


"Jose" wrote in message
m...
two words: space elevator!

Two more words: Big TFR.

It's a sure target. So is a vacuum subway tube for orbital speed cross
country transport.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Face it, people are just curious and that's not enough...

Not only is that definately "enough", that is ultimately the =only=
reason to do anything.

If we weren't fighting wars all of the world to the tune of billions a day,
it might make sense to have a space program.

If we had a space program, we might not be fighting wars all over the world.

(To the metaphor-challenged, what I mean by this is that it is part of
our deeper being to go out and explore, to find out how things work, why
things do what they do, just because it's there. Doing this occupies
our time, our brain, and our energy, and while so occupied, we (and I
mean all humanity) might not be distracted by the petty things another
part of our deeper being causes us to destroy each other for.)

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 15:42:02 GMT, Jose
wrote in ::


If we had a space program, we might not be fighting wars all over the world.

Careful. You're suggesting curtailing war to a military man. :-)

I hear you, and I suppose I am not curtailing war - know we need to fight
them from time to time. And as a father of an A-10 pilot based at DM as well
as a son in the 82nd Airborne both deploying to either Iraq or Afghanistan
in September, I am completely in favor of curtailing the Iraq conflict, a
war about oil.

I think my sons are too valuable to waste in that endeavor. The Afghanistan
situation is understandable since the terrorists had training camps there.
For that matter, Saudi Arabia should have been attacked since most of the
terrorists originated there.,

But I digress.

The space program is a toy and gravy bucket for rich American corporations.
I have never been to space, but my guess is, it's more or less a vacuum and
if we do need to explore, use unmanned vehicles that don't need to have the
environmental protection humans do in space.

Certainly our scientists are creative enough to be able to dash off into
space without sending humans.
"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 15:42:02 GMT, Jose
wrote in ::


If we had a space program, we might not be fighting wars all over the
world.

Careful. You're suggesting curtailing war to a military man. :-)