transponder check?

It's all so nebulous. There's one section on transponders and
altitude reporting equipment requirements that says it applies to
"airplanes and helicopters." An "experimental" is neither, it's an
"experimental" aircraft period. A gyroplane is not an airplane or a
helicopter. The FARS are such a general can of worms, if you ask 5
FAA employees for an interpretation, you'll usually get at least 3
differing answers. I'se keeps me mouf' shut, don't axe questions an'
goes about me bidniss.

KJSDCAUSA



"Gerry Caron" wrote in message . com...
"Russell Duffy" wrote in message
news
Greetings,

I'm expecting to make the first flight of an RV-3 later this month, and am
trying to figure out exactly what needs to be done about the transponder.
Does anyone know for sure? Since the plane is day VFR only, I'm pretty
sure
I don't need to have the pitot static system tested.

Lots of people don't have any sort of certification done on experimentals,
but I think something is probably required. It seems like I've seen a
statement that says the manufacturer of the aircraft (that's me) is
responsible for verifying the operation of the transponder. If I call up
ATC from outside their airspace, and ask for a readout, isn't that
verifying
the operation.

The following are from Part 91 which covers all operations not under Parts
121 or 135. It doesn't matter whether you are flying an experimental, a
C172, or a Citation.

Part 91.413 for transponder checks applies regardless.

You're correct in that 91.411 for altimeter systems (incl: static system)
only applies if you want to fly IFR. But even VFR you may want ATC services
and if your altitude reporting is off, you may get a request to stop
altitude squawk.

Don't know what the reaction might be if you're in a Mode C required area
with a continually bad Mode C. But from a practical point of view; if
you've got Mode C, make sure it's working right. If it isn't working, it
certainly doesn't contribute much to safety and at worse could be a hazard
(If somebody else thinks you're at a given altitude when you're really at a
different altitude--think TCAS.)

The rules spell out the verification and who may do them. The tests are in
Appendix E and F of Part 43.

It's the 91.411 and 91.413 deal. Legally only the transponder check
(91.413) is required for VFR every 24 months.
But to use your encoder you also have to comply with part 43 appendix e
paragraph C, or anytime work has been done that could effect the mode c
output.

If your looking for someone to do this work in the DFW area I'll be
available in the next couple of weeks.
I'm just getting my repair station up and going for doing the VFR and
IFR system inspections.

Dave
Dallas tx


Ken Sandyeggo wrote:
It's all so nebulous. There's one section on transponders and
altitude reporting equipment requirements that says it applies to
"airplanes and helicopters." An "experimental" is neither, it's an
"experimental" aircraft period. A gyroplane is not an airplane or a
helicopter. The FARS are such a general can of worms, if you ask 5
FAA employees for an interpretation, you'll usually get at least 3
differing answers. I'se keeps me mouf' shut, don't axe questions an'
goes about me bidniss.

KJSDCAUSA



"Gerry Caron" wrote in message . com...

"Russell Duffy" wrote in message
news
Greetings,

I'm expecting to make the first flight of an RV-3 later this month, and am
trying to figure out exactly what needs to be done about the transponder.
Does anyone know for sure? Since the plane is day VFR only, I'm pretty

sure

I don't need to have the pitot static system tested.

Lots of people don't have any sort of certification done on experimentals,
but I think something is probably required. It seems like I've seen a
statement that says the manufacturer of the aircraft (that's me) is
responsible for verifying the operation of the transponder. If I call up
ATC from outside their airspace, and ask for a readout, isn't that

verifying

the operation.

The following are from Part 91 which covers all operations not under Parts
121 or 135. It doesn't matter whether you are flying an experimental, a
C172, or a Citation.

Part 91.413 for transponder checks applies regardless.

You're correct in that 91.411 for altimeter systems (incl: static system)
only applies if you want to fly IFR. But even VFR you may want ATC services
and if your altitude reporting is off, you may get a request to stop
altitude squawk.

Don't know what the reaction might be if you're in a Mode C required area
with a continually bad Mode C. But from a practical point of view; if
you've got Mode C, make sure it's working right. If it isn't working, it
certainly doesn't contribute much to safety and at worse could be a hazard
(If somebody else thinks you're at a given altitude when you're really at a
different altitude--think TCAS.)

The rules spell out the verification and who may do them. The tests are in
Appendix E and F of Part 43.

"Dave" wrote in message
et...
It's the 91.411 and 91.413 deal. Legally only the transponder check
(91.413) is required for VFR every 24 months.
But to use your encoder you also have to comply with part 43 appendix e
paragraph C, or anytime work has been done that could effect the mode c
output.

Thanks. I've talked to another shop, and have been told that they can come
to the airport for at least part of the check. They want to check the
transponder on the bench, then put it in the plane to check the system. I'm
trying to talk them into skipping the bench check, since it's a brand new
Garmin transponder. Unfortunately, the owner of the shop is the one I need
to talk to, and he's failed to return my call twice now.

How hard is it to get started as a repair station :-) (only half kidding)

Thanks,
Rusty

Russell Duffy wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
et...

It's the 91.411 and 91.413 deal. Legally only the transponder check
(91.413) is required for VFR every 24 months.
But to use your encoder you also have to comply with part 43 appendix e
paragraph C, or anytime work has been done that could effect the mode c
output.


Thanks. I've talked to another shop, and have been told that they can come
to the airport for at least part of the check. They want to check the
transponder on the bench, then put it in the plane to check the system. I'm
trying to talk them into skipping the bench check, since it's a brand new
Garmin transponder. Unfortunately, the owner of the shop is the one I need
to talk to, and he's failed to return my call twice now.

How hard is it to get started as a repair station :-) (only half kidding)

Thanks,
Rusty


There is no real reason to bench check then check it in the airplane
except to verify the transponder works prior to a new installation or if
it is a mode "s" transponder, he may only have bench equipment to test it.
A bad antenna or antenna connection can swing a transponders frequency
out of range to pass the test.
He may be trying to get a baseline to validate the installation.
If he isn't charging more for the bench check and it's not a mode "s" go
for it. If he is charging lots more and your confident that the
installation is sound, make a few more calls.

Since your static system is new, it should be checked for leaks. That
can be done by an A&P, manufacturer or the guy who does your transponder
check.

You as the manufacutrer of the aircraft who installed the transponder
can also test and inspect the transponder installation, but it still
needs to comply with appendix f.

dave

There is no real reason to bench check then check it in the airplane
except to verify the transponder works prior to a new installation or if
it is a mode "s" transponder, he may only have bench equipment to test it.
A bad antenna or antenna connection can swing a transponders frequency
out of range to pass the test.
He may be trying to get a baseline to validate the installation.
If he isn't charging more for the bench check and it's not a mode "s" go
for it. If he is charging lots more and your confident that the
installation is sound, make a few more calls.

Since your static system is new, it should be checked for leaks. That
can be done by an A&P, manufacturer or the guy who does your transponder
check.

You as the manufacutrer of the aircraft who installed the transponder
can also test and inspect the transponder installation, but it still
needs to comply with appendix f.

dave


Thanks for all the extra info Dave. I talked to my preferred avionics shop
today, the one who said they wouldn't come to my airport. When he really
understook that I couldn't bring the plane to him, he agreed to come over
next week to do a "functional test". He's the one that tested my RV-8 a
year or so ago, so I'm pretty happy that he's agreed to do this. I think
I'm all set now.

Thanks again,
Rusty