airfields with a tower that doesn't control pilots?

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
Last week I was in Greenland, at Narsarsuaq, formerly the USAAF and
USAF airfield Bluie West One.

It's a fabulous place, but one aspect of the Narsarsuaq airfield
really astonished me. There is a tower, six days a week during normal
daylight hours, but the tower only gives advice; the pilot is always
in control, and makes his own decisions.

Is this very unusual?

Unicom. Just a guy giving friendly advice.

There are some private airports which have towers that can give or deny
permission to land at the pilot's discretion. Downsview airport in Toronto
(Bombardier facility and military base) has a tower (in the physical sense)
with an operator that replies "cleared to land at your discretion" if you're
welcome. But it isn't a clearance in the ATC sense of the word.

moo

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message

Several Canadian airports I've been at have a FSS on the field. Their
facility looks like a tower cab, but not up on a tower, and they are the
ones you talk to (you say "St. Catherines Radio" instead of "St.
Catherines Traffic" or they get upset with you), but they tell you the
wind an altimeter settings, tell you if anybody else is in the pattern,
but they don't clear you for anything.

You only talk to Flight Service Centre or Flight Service Station at airports
with a Mandatory Frequency. Airports that have a MF require that you
contact the appropriate Remote Aerodrome Advisory Service on the MF. That
will be a an FSS or FIC who will then advise traffic and field conditions.
Subsequent calls are sort of made to local traffic and the RAAS. (ie.
London Radio N-XXX is turning final Muskoka".) Note that the RAAS / FSS
isn't usually anywhere near the field.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Re...602.htm#602_98

moo

Happy Dog wrote:

(Bombardier facility and military base) has a tower (in the physical sense)
with an operator that replies "cleared to land at your discretion"

This is a contradiction in itself. This operator musn't give any
clearances and hence musn't use the "cleared". It is very important to
understand this.

Stefan

Yes, I think Gatineau airport, near Ottawa, is the same. It's a nice
system.

Les

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
In a previous article, said:
Last week I was in Greenland, at Narsarsuaq, formerly the USAAF and
USAF airfield Bluie West One.

It's a fabulous place, but one aspect of the Narsarsuaq airfield
really astonished me. There is a tower, six days a week during normal
daylight hours, but the tower only gives advice; the pilot is always
in control, and makes his own decisions.

Is this very unusual?

Several Canadian airports I've been at have a FSS on the field. Their
facility looks like a tower cab, but not up on a tower, and they are the
ones you talk to (you say "St. Catherines Radio" instead of "St.
Catherines Traffic" or they get upset with you), but they tell you the
wind an altimeter settings, tell you if anybody else is in the pattern,
but they don't clear you for anything.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
To ensure privacy and data integrity this message has been encrypted
using dual rounds of ROT-13 encryption.

"Stefan"

(Bombardier facility and military base) has a tower (in the physical
sense) with an operator that replies "cleared to land at your discretion"

This is a contradiction in itself. This operator musn't give any
clearances and hence musn't use the "cleared". It is very important to
understand this.

The "operator" can't give the kind of "clearance" ATC gives. But they can
grant permission to land and I don't know of any regulation that makes it
illegal for them to use the word "cleared" when doing so. I've never heard
them say "cleared" without following it with "at your discretion". They're
talking to pilots who are required to know that a Unicom is not an ATC
facility. And sometimes they can give or refuse permission to land (private
facility) and sometimes they can't (public one).

moo

"LWG" wrote in message
...
Yes, I think Gatineau airport, near Ottawa, is the same. It's a nice
system.

Question:

This is a very common COMM situation in Canada. Is there a US equivalent?

moo



Les

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
In a previous article, said:
Last week I was in Greenland, at Narsarsuaq, formerly the USAAF and
USAF airfield Bluie West One.

It's a fabulous place, but one aspect of the Narsarsuaq airfield
really astonished me. There is a tower, six days a week during normal
daylight hours, but the tower only gives advice; the pilot is always
in control, and makes his own decisions.

Is this very unusual?

Several Canadian airports I've been at have a FSS on the field. Their
facility looks like a tower cab, but not up on a tower, and they are the
ones you talk to (you say "St. Catherines Radio" instead of "St.
Catherines Traffic" or they get upset with you), but they tell you the
wind an altimeter settings, tell you if anybody else is in the pattern,
but they don't clear you for anything.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
To ensure privacy and data integrity this message has been encrypted
using dual rounds of ROT-13 encryption.

Happy Dog wrote:

There are some private airports which have towers that can give or deny
permission to land at the pilot's discretion.

How does one deny permission at the pilot's discretion? "... cleared to not
land at pilot's discretion"?

- Andrew

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
Happy Dog wrote:

There are some private airports which have towers that can give or deny
permission to land at the pilot's discretion.

How does one deny permission at the pilot's discretion? "... cleared to
not
land at pilot's discretion"?

hehe

"Not cleared to land at your discretion." Or, maybe, simply "go away".

moo

"Gene Seibel" wrote in news:1125241136.247571.221510
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Used to have similar FSS stations at many airports here in the US.

Still do up here in AK. Then again, we still have NDB airways too.

Happy Dog wrote:

The "operator" can't give the kind of "clearance" ATC gives. But they can
grant permission to land and I don't know of any regulation that makes it
illegal for them to use the word "cleared" when doing so. I've never heard
them say "cleared" without following it with "at your discretion".

In ICAO terminology, the word "cleared" is reserved for ATC clearances
and it is most confusing and dangerous if the term is used carelessly by
other persons. At uncontrolled fields, AFIS just says "land at your
discretion" or simply "welcome", but without any clearance.

And sometimes they can give or refuse permission to land (private
facility) and sometimes they can't (public one).

Of course, they can always refuse the premission to land (except on
emergencies, of course). In this case, they simply say "you're not
allowed to land".

Stefan