airfields with a tower that doesn't control pilots?

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 12:26:19 GMT, Tauno Voipio
wrote:

It seems that you have met AFIS - Aerodrome Flight Information
Service. The guy in the tower is not a qualified ATC controller,
but he's able to provide the minimum information needed for
night or IFR operations.

AFAIK, AFIS is in use on smaller European airports.

Thanks! I'm glad to know it has a name.

Narsarsuaq's airport is open six days a week and only during broad
daylight. Interestingly, the requirements for an IFR approach are
higher than for a VFR approach at home -- as I recall, 6,000 ft
ceiling and four miles viz.

You take up your Initial Point directly over the airport and at 5,800
feet. Then you fly west on a 5.x degree descent for 8 miles. Then you
make a U turn near a 2,500? ft mountain and fly back east on the same
pitch. The air is so clear in Greenland that the ridgeline looked a
couple hundred feet off the starboard wingtip, though it was in fact
about half a mile away.

Altogether, the most fun I've ever had as a passenger in a jet.

(And that doesn't begin to take into account the lissome Faroese
stewardesses. The Faroes -- Iceland -- Greenland, omigod the women! As
Christopher Buckley wrote recently, it's the result of Nordic DNA, six
centuries of keeping strangers out, and eating raw fish for dinner.)



-- all the best, Dan Ford

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On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 15:39:23 GMT, john smith wrote:

I was thinking that originally, but then another poster reminded me that
Denmark owns Greenland, hence the European comparison.

Yeah, it;s the last colony. Greenland has 55,000 people of whom 8,000
are Danes, including most of the high school teachers and 75 out of
its 85 doctors. Danish kroner is the legal currency.

But it's technically in North America.

The U.S. Army splits the different. The west coast of Greenland is in
NORTHCOM. The east coast is in EURCOM (whatever the name).

If you ever get a chance to go to Greenland, grab it. It's a fabulous
country. Going on an expense account would be even better: a beer is
six bucks. Not only is the bottle imported from Denmark, but it is
sent back to Denmark for recycling.

Diesel however is as cheap as in the U.S.--the Danes subsidise it or
anyhow don't tax it in order to encourage Greenlandic fisheries etc.
Dunno about gasoline. There are effectively no roads, hence no gas
stations. You can buy it at the airport though.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
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the blog: www.danford.net
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On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 17:41:20 -0400, "Happy Dog"
wrote:

Is this very unusual?

Unicom. Just a guy giving friendly advice.

No, it's not Unicom. The airfield tower is a very serious matter. If
you want to fly outside of tower hours, you pay $800 to bring the
"controller" (whatever he is called) out, and to man the fire station.

It's merely that the pilot and not the controller makes the decisions.
I appreciate that the pilot is always the ultimate authority, but in
the U.S. he can't go against the wishes of the controller unless he
declares an emergency, right?

Narsarsuaq is a challenging airport in a very severe environment (the
icecap starts just five miles to the east). The pilot needs somebody
in the tower and in the firehouse. It seems to me that the challenge
is so great that the final control authority has been punted from the
tower to the cockpit, and I wondered how common this is.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

"Happy Dog" wrote in message
...

There are some private airports which have towers that can give or deny
permission to land at the pilot's discretion. Downsview airport in
Toronto (Bombardier facility and military base) has a tower (in the
physical sense) with an operator that replies "cleared to land at your
discretion" if you're welcome. But it isn't a clearance in the ATC sense
of the word.


There is at least one privately owned airport that has a tower that can
issue genuine landing and takeoff clearances. Airborne Airpark near
Wilmington Ohio is owned by DHL.

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

It's merely that the pilot and not the controller makes the decisions.
I appreciate that the pilot is always the ultimate authority, but in
the U.S. he can't go against the wishes of the controller unless he
declares an emergency, right?


No, he can't deviate from any rule of Part 91 except in an in-flight
emergency requiring immediate action. He doesn't have to declare the
emergency, he just has to have it.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

No, he can't deviate from any rule of Part 91 except in an in-flight

I wasn't aware that the US FARs are applicable in Greenland.

Stefan

"Stefan" wrote in message
...

I wasn't aware that the US FARs are applicable in Greenland.


They're not. We're not talking about Greenland. We're talking about the
US.

The airfield tower is a very serious matter. If
you want to fly outside of tower hours, you pay $800 to bring the
"controller" (whatever he is called) out, and to man the fire station.

Do you think that this is warranted, given the circumstances and the lay
of the airport, or is this an example of idle road crews? (neutral
question - no preformed opinion)

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Stefan"
The "operator" can't give the kind of "clearance" ATC gives. But they
can grant permission to land and I don't know of any regulation that
makes it illegal for them to use the word "cleared" when doing so. I've
never heard them say "cleared" without following it with "at your
discretion".

In ICAO terminology, the word "cleared" is reserved for ATC clearances and
it is most confusing and dangerous if the term is used carelessly by other
persons. At uncontrolled fields, AFIS just says "land at your discretion"
or simply "welcome", but without any clearance.

They shouldn't use the word "cleared". But they can and do.It doesn't
confuse me. Would anyone here really find it confusing?

And sometimes they can give or refuse permission to land (private
facility) and sometimes they can't (public one).

Of course, they can always refuse the premission to land (except on
emergencies, of course). In this case, they simply say "you're not allowed
to land".

Not at a public facility.

moo

Happy Dog wrote:

They shouldn't use the word "cleared". But they can and do.

I know, some do. Very bad habit, though.

It doesn't
confuse me. Would anyone here really find it confusing?

The point is not whether you or me would find it confusing while sitting
in front of a computer and reading usenet. The point is whether it can
cause confusions in a stressy environment, with maybe even people
involved who can barely understand and speak English. The whole point of
a well defined radio terminology is to try to avoid all possibilities of
confusion. If you read accident reports, a surprising lot of them was
caused by misunderstandings which could have been avoided by the use of
the proper terminology.

Of course, they can always refuse the permission to land (except on

Not at a public facility.

This depends on national laws.

Stefan