IFR student

Roger Halstead wrote

The switch from the panel to looking outside can be one of the
most difficult phases of flight.

Very true

You need to "glance out" just prior to DH to prevent busting
altitude

What constitutes "busting altitude" on an approach with a "DH"?

The PIC stays on the gauges while the second pilot calls watches
for land, and may call for speeds and altitudes. That lease the
PIC as just flying the gauges with the other set of eyes looking
outside.

This is not written in stone. There are many different " flying
and looking" schemes in use by various operators. "PIC" should not
be used when in fact, "pilot flying" is meant.

Bob Moore

Cecil,
A number of times while teaching at RHV, I've returned when the field was still IFR.
On one occasion recently we flew the ILS 30L approach to SJC and when we broke
out of the clouds, diverted to RHV. In another case, we flew an approach into
Hayward, followed I-880 and I-680 to the field and got in under special VFR.
In both of those cases, having a GPS wouldn't have helped anyway, since the MDA
is so high on that approach.
Max T, MCFI



The only drawback is that my home airport,
Reid-Hillview only has a GPS approach and none of the 172's I currently fly
have panel mount GPS's (supposed to be getting two,, unfortunately they
aren't being added to any of the planes that I fly), so we can only take
advantage of the IMC if it is VFR (i.e., so I get back) at my home airport
around the time we plan returning to RHV.

This may be a 'silly human question', but how does one legally land at an
airport if it is IFR at the airport and the plane doesn't have a GPS, yet
the only published instrument approach for that airport IS a GPS?

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures complete with pictures and text at:
www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"Max T, CFI" wrote in message
news:MqxBb.351137$ao4.1176913@attbi_s51...
Cecil,
A number of times while teaching at RHV, I've returned when the field was
still IFR.
On one occasion recently we flew the ILS 30L approach to SJC and when we
broke
out of the clouds, diverted to RHV. In another case, we flew an approach
into
Hayward, followed I-880 and I-680 to the field and got in under special
VFR.
In both of those cases, having a GPS wouldn't have helped anyway, since
the MDA
is so high on that approach.
Max T, MCFI



The only drawback is that my home airport,
Reid-Hillview only has a GPS approach and none of the 172's I currently
fly
have panel mount GPS's (supposed to be getting two,, unfortunately they
aren't being added to any of the planes that I fly), so we can only take
advantage of the IMC if it is VFR (i.e., so I get back) at my home
airport
around the time we plan returning to RHV.

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
. com...
This may be a 'silly human question', but how does one legally land at an
airport if it is IFR at the airport and the plane doesn't have a GPS, yet
the only published instrument approach for that airport IS a GPS?

He said he shot the ILS to SJC and did a SPECIAL VFR to RHV.

Used to be a pretty standard occurance to get into VKX, the airport manager
even made up an approach plate for "ILS into ADW, special VFR ot VKX"

oopers.... didn't see that... Thanks!

Happy Holidays!

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures complete with pictures and text at:
www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
. ..

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
. com...
This may be a 'silly human question', but how does one legally land at
an
airport if it is IFR at the airport and the plane doesn't have a GPS,
yet
the only published instrument approach for that airport IS a GPS?

He said he shot the ILS to SJC and did a SPECIAL VFR to RHV.

Used to be a pretty standard occurance to get into VKX, the airport
manager
even made up an approach plate for "ILS into ADW, special VFR ot VKX"

the most helpful thing for me was a good lapboard.
one that was able to hold 2 pens, paper and approach charts. your going
to be doing alot of writing, so make sure your lapboard is good for you.

Gerald Sylvester wrote:

I'm close to completing my PPL (9 days for my checkride) and planned
to go onto to get IFR training in a 6-7 months. The weather
in the San Francisco Bay area has been quite cloudy and rainy and
was thinking about starting my IFR training immediately in order
to take advantage of the IMC conditions. I know most people get
IFR rated without having ever flown in IMC. I want to do it
for real.

So a simple question......what items did you find helpful for
IFR training? This is in regards to books (my instructor recommended
Gleim, a book by Dugan (?), and the Jeppeson book), foggles (brands?),
timers, anything and everything. I'm definitely more into quality
than quantity. I'd rather spend an extra money and get best,
easiest and especially the safest.

thanks
Gerald

I'm about 200 hrs PP, 20 hrs into my IFR training. I fly out of
PAO, just a few miles from RHV, and though we have a VOR approach,
it's got high minimums, and the approach controllers around SJC
are going to make you wait a good long time for it if it's an IMC
day. So far, to get back into PAO in lowish weather, we've done SVFR
when possible.

Where do you RHVers go to practice IAPS? My instructor and I fly
to SCK, LVK, MOD a lot. I could cut the cost of my IA rating if
those airports were a little closer.

By the way, I agree, a good lapboard is not the obvious pilot
gadget that comes to mind before you start IFR training, but
after a few lessons, it'll move up on your list of priorities.

-- dave j
--

Jeff wrote in message ...
the most helpful thing for me was a good lapboard.
one that was able to hold 2 pens, paper and approach charts. your going
to be doing alot of writing, so make sure your lapboard is good for you.

Gerald Sylvester wrote:

I'm close to completing my PPL (9 days for my checkride) and planned
to go onto to get IFR training in a 6-7 months. The weather
in the San Francisco Bay area has been quite cloudy and rainy and
was thinking about starting my IFR training immediately in order
to take advantage of the IMC conditions. I know most people get
IFR rated without having ever flown in IMC. I want to do it
for real.

So a simple question......what items did you find helpful for
IFR training? This is in regards to books (my instructor recommended
Gleim, a book by Dugan (?), and the Jeppeson book), foggles (brands?),
timers, anything and everything. I'm definitely more into quality
than quantity. I'd rather spend an extra money and get best,
easiest and especially the safest.

thanks
Gerald

Where do you RHVers go to practice IAPS? My instructor and I fly
to SCK, LVK, MOD a lot. I could cut the cost of my IA rating if
those airports were a little closer.

Hee hee.... that's where we 'be' too! That and WVI and SNS. I'm with you
too on the point of I wish I coud find IAPs closer. Heck, when I start my
Commercial rating I will be able to get two lessons for the time it takes me
to do one instrument lesson.

--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures complete with pictures and text at:
www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -
"Dave Jacobowitz" wrote in message
om...
I'm about 200 hrs PP, 20 hrs into my IFR training. I fly out of
PAO, just a few miles from RHV, and though we have a VOR approach,
it's got high minimums, and the approach controllers around SJC
are going to make you wait a good long time for it if it's an IMC
day. So far, to get back into PAO in lowish weather, we've done SVFR
when possible.



By the way, I agree, a good lapboard is not the obvious pilot
gadget that comes to mind before you start IFR training, but
after a few lessons, it'll move up on your list of priorities.

-- dave j
--

Jeff wrote in message
...
the most helpful thing for me was a good lapboard.
one that was able to hold 2 pens, paper and approach charts. your going
to be doing alot of writing, so make sure your lapboard is good for
you.

Gerald Sylvester wrote:

I'm close to completing my PPL (9 days for my checkride) and planned
to go onto to get IFR training in a 6-7 months. The weather
in the San Francisco Bay area has been quite cloudy and rainy and
was thinking about starting my IFR training immediately in order
to take advantage of the IMC conditions. I know most people get
IFR rated without having ever flown in IMC. I want to do it
for real.

So a simple question......what items did you find helpful for
IFR training? This is in regards to books (my instructor recommended
Gleim, a book by Dugan (?), and the Jeppeson book), foggles (brands?),
timers, anything and everything. I'm definitely more into quality
than quantity. I'd rather spend an extra money and get best,
easiest and especially the safest.

thanks
Gerald

Dave Jacobowitz wrote:

I'm about 200 hrs PP, 20 hrs into my IFR training. I fly out of
PAO, just a few miles from RHV, and though we have a VOR approach,
it's got high minimums,

VOR/DME RWY 31 is good down to 460/1.
Those are not particularly high minimums for a VOR/DME approach.
PAO weather only goes below 500 and 1 maybe six hours per year.


and the approach controllers around SJC
are going to make you wait a good long time for it if it's an IMC day.

Sometimes you'll wait even when it's not IMC. The approach path is
incompatible with SJC operations. That's the real problem with that
approach.


So far, to get back into PAO in lowish weather, we've done SVFR
when possible.

Where do you RHVers go to practice IAPS? My instructor and I fly
to SCK, LVK, MOD a lot. I could cut the cost of my IA rating if
those airports were a little closer.

PAO has a fantastic GPS approach. It was designed not to conflict with SJC.
Unlike the VOR/DME, the only delays I've ever experienced getting on the GPS
approach were due to the traffic volume into PAO on the GPS. If you're
going to be based at PAO and want to realize the utility and convenience of
your instrument rating, you'll need to be equipped for and proficient at
flying the GPS approach.

If you can train in an airplane with IFR GPS and have a CFII who doesn't
consider GPS approaches as some kind of afterthought in a modern pilot's bag
of tricks, you can easily pick them up with little extra training time.
After all, you always have to come home from each lesson, and you can fly
the GPS approach every time you come home if you want to.

Craig Prouse wrote in message ...

(The PAO)
VOR/DME RWY 31 is good down to 460/1.
Those are not particularly high minimums for a VOR/DME approach.
PAO weather only goes below 500 and 1 maybe six hours per year.

This is correct. I was wrong.

Having no access to IFR GPS and therefore not flown any GPS
approaches, but having looked at a lot of the
plates, many these approaches seem to be on the order of
850-900 and 1. For a few airports I know, such as KHAF,
which is frequenlty clear or has a very low layer, that
would appear to make them more or less useless.

(waiting to get the PAO VOR/DME 31 apch)

Sometimes you'll wait even when it's not IMC. The approach path is
incompatible with SJC operations. That's the real problem with that
approach.

Yeah, as an IFR student on a budget, I have noticed myself starting
to mentally convert EFC times into dollars. "hold north of foobs,
expect clearance for bar approach in forty-one of your hard-earned
bucks."

Of course, the worst is on the ground, engine running, waiting
for t/o clearance.

PAO has a fantastic GPS approach. It was designed not to conflict with SJC.
Unlike the VOR/DME, the only delays I've ever experienced getting on the GPS
approach were due to the traffic volume into PAO on the GPS. If you're
going to be based at PAO and want to realize the utility and convenience of
your instrument rating, you'll need to be equipped for and proficient at
flying the GPS approach.

This is good information. None of the trainer aircraft my club has,
except a Duchess and a Bonanza, have GPS, which a bummer. I don't
think either of those planes would be a good choice for me getting
my IA.

In any case, for *lots* of reasons, I think that if I want to
realize the utility and convenience of my instrument raiting,
I'll want access to better equipment. (That said, I'm already
getting a lot of satisfaction in just being a more proficient
and precise pilot.)


-- dave j