Runway Numbering - Radio Procedure

Jose wrote:
Hi Jose. I like your checksum argument. It's two digits for me from now
on, and we should urge everyone to adopt this convention.


It's actually somebody else's idea, though I recognized it as like a
checksum. However, "zero two" and "two zero" can be confused with each
other even when each is clearly heard.

There is another pair: 13-31.

At least here, the combinations 02-20 and 13-31 are avoided
by naming the runway to the next available direction, so it
may be up to 10 degrees off course. An example is Mariehamn,
Aland Islands: the runway is 021/201 degrees, but the naming
is 03-21.

--

Tauno Voipio
tauno voipio (at) iki fi

I once flew to an ratehr rundown airport with a 2-20. The Unicom was
so badly garbled that I even after asking Unicom to "say again" three
or four times, I had no idea whether the guy was saying "zero two" or
"two zero."

"Runway one plus one, or runway ten plus ten?"

You don't think it's likely that the Unicom guy would say anything
like that, do you? If he had it wouldn't have helped; same number of
syllables either way.

vince norris

"Runway one plus one, or runway ten plus ten?"

You don't think it's likely that the Unicom guy would say anything
like that, do you? If he had it wouldn't have helped; same number of
syllables either way.

No, but if I were repeately unable to ascertain "two zero" or "two
static" I would ask that question.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:

No, but if I were repeately unable to ascertain "two zero" or "two
static" I would ask that question.

I would simply ask north or south.

Stefan

"Icebound" wrote in message
...

Well, yes, the case is easy to make.

If everybody used the leading zero all the time, then you KNOW FOR SURE
anytime you hear less than two digits, then you have missed something.


How do I know the digits haven't been transposed? If I hear, "Podunk
traffic, Waco niner eight zero one victor, entering downwind runway zero
two, stop-and-go, Podunk", how do I know the pilot didn't mean to say,
"Podunk traffic, Waco niner eight zero one victor, entering downwind runway
two zero, stop-and-go, Podunk." Podunk does have a runway two zero, but it
has no runway designated zero two.



If the leading zero is NOT used and you hear only ONE digit, then you have
no way of knowing whether you missed something, or not.


What might I have missed if I hear,"Podunk traffic, Waco niner eight zero
one victor, entering downwind runway two, stop-and-go, Podunk."



Shortening a direction-based entity in this way is unnatural and causes
confusion. Even the FAA's own NACO chart-selection web site, uses the
leading zeros in the index, and then omits them on the charts..


That may be only a software requirement.

"Jose" wrote in message
. ..

Maybe. But not certainly. People don't always speak with the same
cadence, so time is a poor checksum.


That problem is better solved by making sure you speak with the same cadence
than by adding a superfluous digit.

"Jose" wrote in message
...

Yes, but missing the airport does not imply a transmission error. The
airport simply may not have been transmitted. Poor form, but not a data
error.


Not a data error? If the pilot doesn't identify the airport I may have to
ask him where he's going. If he does identify it and it's not the airport
I'm going to I can ignore him. The location is important data.

"Joe Johnson" wrote in message
...

Hi Jose. I like your checksum argument. It's two digits for me from now
on, and we should urge everyone to adopt this convention.


Except those operating at Kodiak, of course.

No, but if I were repeately unable to ascertain "two zero" or "two static" I would ask that question.


I would simply ask north or south.

Better.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

If the leading zero is NOT used and you hear only ONE digit, then you have
no way of knowing whether you missed something, or not.

What might I have missed if I hear,"Podunk traffic, Waco niner eight zero
one victor, entering downwind runway two, stop-and-go, Podunk."

"Podunk traffic, Waco niner eight zero one victor, entering downwind
runway two ZERO, stop-and-go, Podunk."

He's actually coming the other way, head on to you who hears "runway
two, stop and go..."

How do I know the digits haven't been transposed?

I suppose you don't, and that's the argument for omitting the leading
zero. Further, you could hear it correctly and transpose it in your own
mind.

Which one trumps the other? I don't think either is trump. Do what
other pilots expect to hear, whether by local practice or AIM.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.