Potential Class B Bust

Originally Posted by Charlie45

What could realistically happen? What could the worst case scenario be? Am I a liable or is my flight instructor liable?

The worst would be disciplinary action, certificate suspension, etc. But realistically, as a student, you would be given additional training. Your CFI, if he was acting as PIC (he had valid medical, license, etc) would be liable for any FAA actions. If you were acting as PIC because your CFI did NOT have the medical, then you may be considered as PIC, and would then be liable.

As a former DPE, I've seen a few of these actions in the past. The FAA usually will be satisfied with the PIC taking remedial training. But in the future, I would not talk to the FAA without first consulting an aviation attorney. And as another poster said, fill out a NASA report immediately!

Originally Posted by awsummerfield

The worst would be disciplinary action, certificate suspension, etc. But realistically, as a student, you would be given additional training. Your CFI, if he was acting as PIC (he had valid medical, license, etc) would be liable for any FAA actions. If you were acting as PIC because your CFI did NOT have the medical, then you may be considered as PIC, and would then be liable.

As a former DPE, I've seen a few of these actions in the past. The FAA usually will be satisfied with the PIC taking remedial training. But in the future, I would not talk to the FAA without first consulting an aviation attorney. And as another poster said, fill out a NASA report immediately!

Thank you guys for the prompt feedback. I will file the form and keep you all posted how all of this pans out. Thanks.

So I spoke with an aviation attorney. He recommended that I hold off on filing the NASA safety report at the moment. Given the situation and that I really don't believe that I violated class Bravo it would not be prudent to file the form until I receive the letter from the FAA. The thought behind this is that I would be admitting to the violation if I were to file the safety report. I will wait until I have the letter and see what happens from there...

In article ,
Charlie45 wrote:

So I spoke with an aviation attorney. He recommended that I hold off on
filing the NASA safety report at the moment. Given the situation and
that I really don't believe that I violated class Bravo it would not be
prudent to file the form until I receive the letter from the FAA. The
thought behind this is that I would be admitting to the violation if I
were to file the safety report. I will wait until I have the letter and
see what happens from there...

BAD ADVICE! File the report and keep the slip, as you have only 10 days
to file and receive immunity. ASRS maintains strict confidentiality, so
filing the report will not affect guilt or innocence.

If you receive the letter from FAA, you can respond that you filed the
ASRS report and, at worst, use that fact to "get out of jail for free."

If you wait for the letter, you cannot receive immunity, if it takes
more than 10 days from the event.

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
In article ,
Charlie45 wrote:


So I spoke with an aviation attorney. He recommended that I hold off on
filing the NASA safety report at the moment. Given the situation and
that I really don't believe that I violated class Bravo it would not be
prudent to file the form until I receive the letter from the FAA. The
thought behind this is that I would be admitting to the violation if I
were to file the safety report. I will wait until I have the letter and
see what happens from there...


BAD ADVICE! File the report and keep the slip, as you have only 10 days
to file and receive immunity. ASRS maintains strict confidentiality, so
filing the report will not affect guilt or innocence.

If you receive the letter from FAA, you can respond that you filed the
ASRS report and, at worst, use that fact to "get out of jail for free."

If you wait for the letter, you cannot receive immunity, if it takes
more than 10 days from the event.

Also, I believe the act of filing an ASRS report cannot be used as a
basis for prosecuting you. Thus, the safety value of the report exceeds
the penal value.

Charlie45 wrote:
So I spoke with an aviation attorney. He recommended that I hold off on
filing the NASA safety report at the moment. Given the situation and
that I really don't believe that I violated class Bravo it would not be
prudent to file the form until I receive the letter from the FAA. The
thought behind this is that I would be admitting to the violation if I
were to file the safety report. I will wait until I have the letter and
see what happens from there...


Does this so-called aviation attorney actually have an aviation
practice? This advice is ludircous for a number of reasons.

1. The ASRS reports, barring a few exceptions like accidents
occurring, can NOT be used for enforcement procedures.

2. The FAA won't even find out you've filed one unless you
tell them.

3. I'm not sure why you are admitting more if you wait until
the FAA comes after you than if you file now...

and FINALLY:

Persuant to AC00-46D, you only have 10 days from the date of the
incident to file the report in order to EVER use it as your FAA
"get out of jail free" card.

Are you sure he didn't mean for you to file and not TELL the
FAA you had filed one until they start the enforcement?

[/color]
Does this so-called aviation attorney actually have an aviation
practice? This advice is ludircous for a number of reasons.

1. The ASRS reports, barring a few exceptions like accidents
occurring, can NOT be used for enforcement procedures.

2. The FAA won't even find out you've filed one unless you
tell them.

3. I'm not sure why you are admitting more if you wait until
the FAA comes after you than if you file now...

and FINALLY:

Persuant to AC00-46D, you only have 10 days from the date of the
incident to file the report in order to EVER use it as your FAA
"get out of jail free" card.

Are you sure he didn't mean for you to file and not TELL the
FAA you had filed one until they start the enforcement?[/quote]


I spoke with another Attorney in the meantime and he said that I should promptly file the NASA report. He also said that the FAA would not find about the filing unless it was something serious (e.g. aircraft accident).

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...

Are you sure he didn't mean for you to file and not TELL the
FAA you had filed one until they start the enforcement?

I would think that you shouldn't tell them until they *finish* the
enforcement proceedings. After all, they might decide they can't prove you
did anything wrong (because of altimeter inaccuracy), or they might not
impose a penalty, and so on.

I've always heard that you should file the report, then let whatever happens
happen, and *finally*, if they say that they want to pull your certificate
or fine you, *then* you pull out your ASRS receipt and say "Sorry, I'm off
the hook."

I would think, by the way, that your instructor should file a separate ASRS
report.

"Charlie45" wrote in message
...

So I spoke with an aviation attorney. He recommended that I hold off on
filing the NASA safety report at the moment. Given the situation and
that I really don't believe that I violated class Bravo it would not be
prudent to file the form until I receive the letter from the FAA. The
thought behind this is that I would be admitting to the violation if I
were to file the safety report. I will wait until I have the letter and
see what happens from there...


--
Charlie45

What everybody else said. Your attorney is giving horrible advice and
obviously knows absolutely nothing about the NASA reports.

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 16:08:37 GMT, "Dave Stadt"
wrote:


"Charlie45" wrote in message
.. .

So I spoke with an aviation attorney. He recommended that I hold off on
filing the NASA safety report at the moment. Given the situation and
that I really don't believe that I violated class Bravo it would not be
prudent to file the form until I receive the letter from the FAA. The
thought behind this is that I would be admitting to the violation if I
were to file the safety report. I will wait until I have the letter and
see what happens from there...


--
Charlie45

What everybody else said. Your attorney is giving horrible advice and
obviously knows absolutely nothing about the NASA reports.

He is however, advising very much in standard attorney-style. Which is
- to admit nothing. to apologize to nobody.

They are a baleful influence on business, sports and public life in
general, no doubt.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK