Helicopter Question

We can request "special VFR" that'll even allow for near "no vis" opt
IIRC.

"Flyingmonk" wrote in message
oups.com...
We can request "special VFR" that'll even allow for near "no vis" opt
IIRC.

Special VFR still requires a minimum of 1 mile visibility.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:XNvjf.611926$xm3.441724@attbi_s21...
Having worked for a medevac operator where most of the helicopters were
VFR only, my guess is this - they don't fly in IMC, let alone IMC with
the possibility of icing.

Of course, what's their definition of "IMC"?

Don't helicopters have a lower threshold for IMC than we fixed wing folks?

Yes. See FAR 91.155 and 91.157. For all practical purposes, helicopters
can fly in arbitrarily low visibility. 91.155 grants them this right in
Class G airspace, and 91.157 grants them this right elsewhere (with a
Special VFR clearance).

Since a pilot can get a Special VFR clearance pretty much anywhere that
there *isn't* Class G airspace near the surface (generally below 700 or 1200
feet, depending), this means that as long as the helicopter pilot can see
well enough to avoid obstacles, the visibility is defined as being
sufficient, no matter how low it actually is.

Pete

1 mile is close enough to none for me

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

Jay
Helicopters don't handle ice very well at all. Think of how it affects
the wings of airplanes? The rotor blades are the wings for a helicopter
and can't handle much ice at all. Long before there is enough ice to
sling off the blades, the helicopter is on its way to the ground either
under control, or out of control! The helicopters are much more
sensitive to weight than most airplanes, and the addition of weight in
the form of ice is real bad news for rotorcraft aside from blade ice.
For reference, I've got about 9000 hrs in rotor and another 13-14000 in
FW and more than 1500 actual IFR. I've experienced lots of icing
conditions in airplanes and if there is any ice forecast on my route of
flight in a helicopter...I simply don't go.
I've been forced to the ground in FW a couple times with clear ice and
shudder to think of what those same conditions would have done to me in
helicopters.
As for the EMS people, while I applaud their go get'em attitude, they
too must make an executive decision when icing conditions are present.
The simple aerodynamic rules could care less about ability or attitude!
Ice is to be feared and respected. For more info, check on
rec.aviation.rotorcraft and post the same questions. Or, better yet, go
to Just Helicopters.com and pose the same questions there for a lot of
answers by some highly experienced rotor people. The "Original" forum
has some real wise asses that pop up, but is also frequented by the old
pros. The new forum is more serious and if you post on each, you'll see
some interesting answers. Go take a look...!
Ol Shy & Bashful

Yes, IIRC, "special VFR"

It's not SVFR. Note the (c) and (d) paragraphs in our Canadian
Law:

602.115 Minimum Visual Meteorological Conditions for VFR Flight in
Uncontrolled Airspace
602.115 No person shall operate an aircraft in VFR flight within
uncontrolled airspace unless
(a) the aircraft is operated with visual reference to the surface;
(b) where the aircraft is operated at or above 1,000 feet AGL
(i) during the day, flight visibility is not less than one mile,
(ii) during the night, flight visibility is not less than three
miles, and
(iii) in either case, the distance of the aircraft from cloud is not
less than 500 feet vertically and 2,000 feet horizontally;
(c) where the aircraft is not a helicopter and is operated at less than
1,000 feet AGL
(i) during the day, flight visibility is not less than two miles,
except if otherwise authorized in an air operator certificate or a
private operator certificate,
(ii) during the night, flight visibility is not less than three
miles, and
(iii) in either case, the aircraft is operated clear of cloud; and
(d) where the aircraft is a helicopter and is operated at less than
1,000 feet AGL
(i) during the day, flight visibility is not less than one mile,
except if otherwise authorized in an air operator certificate or a
flight training unit operator certificate - helicopter,
(ii) during the night, flight visibility is not less than three
miles, and
(iii) in either case, the aircraft is operated clear of cloud.

Dan

On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:15:30 -0800, "Peter Duniho"
wrote in
::


Since a pilot can get a Special VFR clearance pretty much anywhere that
there *isn't* Class G airspace near the surface (generally below 700 or 1200
feet, depending), this means that as long as the helicopter pilot can see
well enough to avoid obstacles, the visibility is defined as being
sufficient, no matter how low it actually is.

It was my understanding, that a Special VFR clearance was only issued
within the controlled airspace of the surface area of an airport:


§ 91.157 Special VFR weather minimums.

(a) Except as provided in appendix D, section 3, of this part,
special VFR operations may be conducted under the weather minimums
and requirements of this section, instead of those contained in
§91.155, below 10,000 feet MSL within the airspace contained by
the upward extension of the lateral boundaries of the controlled
airspace designated to the surface for an airport.

That doesn't seem to be what you are saying above. Did I miss
something?

wrote

For reference, I've got about 9000 hrs in rotor

Damn, I used to respect you, before you came clean with that fact! g

Why do Heli's fly? Because they are so ugly, the ground repulses them! ;-)

But you've never heard that one before, right?
--
Jim in NC

For reference, I've got about 9000 hrs in rotor

Damn, I used to respect you, before you came clean with that fact! g

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. 9000 hours inside a frog blender?
That's *crazy*!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
[...]
That doesn't seem to be what you are saying above. Did I miss
something?

I don't know what you missed. But the text you quoted doesn't contradict
anything I wrote.

If you are near the surface (less than 700', for example) and you are not in
Class G, it is practically certain that you are "within the airspace
contained by the upward extension of the lateral boundaries of the
controlled airspace designated to the surface for an airport".

If you were not in such protected airspace, you'd be in the Class G
underlying the Class E (assuming there's any Class E in the neighborhood at
all). In Class G airpace, the Special VFR clearance isn't required; the
helicopter enjoys the lack of a minimum visibility requirement without one
there.

Pete