floatplane - taking off frozen lake

B24
wrote in message
ups.com...
| Dan,
|
| Actually the airplane that came to a stop in the whiteout
over
| Greenland was a B-17 (My Gal Sal). That began a very long
rescue
| effort (some months) in which a number of people died
getting the crew
| out.
|
| What you may be recalling is that the legendary Bernt
Balchen (first
| person to pilot an aircraft over both poles, Byrd's pilot
across the
| Atlantic in 1927 and over the South Pole in 1929) landed a
PBY, gear
| up, on the ice pack a number of times during the rescue
(he also
| successfully took off). He also landed on a temporary
lake that formed
| on the ice pack due to melting ice.
|
| All the best,
| Rick
|
| Cub Driver wrote:
| On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:50:29 -0800, "Seth Masia"

| wrote:
|
| My buddy Buzz Fiorini used to fly his C180 floatplane
over to Sun Valley and
| land on a snow-packed meadow. Did it regularly, for
years, with no damage.
|
| During WWII in a whiteout, a PBY Catalina was flying
over the
| Greenland ice cap at 10,000-plus feet when the crew
realized that
| though the engines were developing full revs, the plane
wasn't moving
| any longer. They'd landed on the snow. They piled out
and ran around,
| laughing. Then they realized that, no, they weren't
going to take off
| again.
|
|
| -- all the best, Dan Ford
|
| email: usenet AT danford DOT net
|
| Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
| Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
| the blog: www.danford.net
| In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com
|

Peter Duniho wrote:

The video posted is crappy as all get out (not only is the source analog,
but it looks like the tape's been used a zillion times before). It's hard
to tell if the ice is solid or not...it seems as though the ice during the
backtaxi isn't. But the floats do seem to stay on top during the takeoff.

At one point, it looks like there's a second or two of footage of a man standing
on the ice pushing the tail around. Hard to tell, though.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Flyingmonk wrote:
It wasn't the ice, but the TREES that I was commenting at, he almost
ate it. :)

Looks to me that he didn't even make it off the ice. Looks like he got
catapulted into the air when the floats hit the brush at the edge of the lake.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

I wonder. In the EDO ads they show sea planes taking off and landing on
grass. The claim by EDO is that the floats are very, very tough. The
fact tha the weight of the aircraft is distributed over a wide area
probably helps as well.
-Robert

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
newsd9lf.11192$Wu.3984@fed1read05...
Would puncturing a float be a concern when it comes to ice?

Not if the ice is flat, solid, and strong enough to support the airplane.

However, broken ice floating just below the surface is a significant risk.
It certainly can tear the skin of a float or the hull of a boat-hull
seaplane, and if the conditions are right, the ice is completely
invisible.

The video posted is crappy as all get out (not only is the source analog,
but it looks like the tape's been used a zillion times before)

One of the great oxymoron's in television: "VHS Quality"

Lots of oxide loss and stretches too. Really ugly.

It's hard to tell if the ice is solid or not...it seems as though the ice
during the backtaxi isn't. But the floats do seem to stay on top during
the takeoff. Seems to me that's probably a matter of luck than good
planning though, since the airplane was clearly not supported by the ice
at the beginning of the video.

That's why I was wondering about this. Seems to me that if you were to
break through the ice while you are between taxi speed but not yet "on step"
it could ruin your whole day.

Jay B

"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:nJjlf.22$6N2.3@fed1read06...
[...]
That's why I was wondering about this. Seems to me that if you were to
break through the ice while you are between taxi speed but not yet "on
step" it could ruin your whole day.

Breaking through the ice certainly could, whether or not you are on the
step. At a minimum, you could easily bend or break something, even if you
don't tear the float skin. Even if there's nothing solid in the water, just
big waves, it's possible to crack a structural rib or something (been there,
done that). Put something solid like ice in the water, and all bets are
off.

Of course, the greatest risk is at the greatest speed, just before liftoff
(or just after touchdown, if landing). But there's always risk, regardless.

Of course (#2 ), in the video it appears that the airplane doesn't so
much get up on the step as it does ride up onto the ice as if up a ramp.
That could happen at a very slow speed, far below anything that might cause
significant damage. So as long as the float stayed on top of the ice after
that point (a big "if"), things would probably be okay.

Dunno. It's hard to tell anything concrete from the video, with respect to
what actually happened.

Pete

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
I wonder. In the EDO ads they show sea planes taking off and landing on
grass. The claim by EDO is that the floats are very, very tough.

The floats are very, very tough. They have to be. But everything has its
limits. Grass is a lot more forgiving than ice, both respect to stability
(it's not likely to break under you) as well as to uniformity (grass used
for seaplane operations is almost always going to be an actual grass runway,
and a relatively smooth one at that).

Peter Duniho wrote:

Dunno. It's hard to tell anything concrete from the video, with respect to
what actually happened.

I would think some flap might have helped...

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
newsd9lf.11192$Wu.3984@fed1read05...
Would puncturing a float be a concern when it comes to ice?

Not if the ice is flat, solid, and strong enough to support the airplane.

However, broken ice floating just below the surface is a significant risk.
It certainly can tear the skin of a float or the hull of a boat-hull
seaplane, and if the conditions are right, the ice is completely
invisible.

The video posted is crappy as all get out (not only is the source analog,
but it looks like the tape's been used a zillion times before). It's hard
to tell if the ice is solid or not...it seems as though the ice during the
backtaxi isn't. But the floats do seem to stay on top during the takeoff.
Seems to me that's probably a matter of luck than good planning though,
since the airplane was clearly not supported by the ice at the beginning
of the video.

Pete

its funny to see you (and everyone else) speculate when you dont know any of
the facts surrounding the video

"Lets Fly" wrote in
:

Snipola
its funny to see you (and everyone else) speculate when you dont know
any of the facts surrounding the video

The only facts present is the video itself. You're the one who
posted the link. If you know more "facts", please enlighten us.

Brian
--
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