MDW Overrun - SWA

I looked up the MDW airport diagram and the 31C ILS...
The threshold is displaced, so the available landing
distance is only 5800 instead of the 6300 feet of concrete
(numbers rounded). The ILS glide slope will intersect the
runway half way along the touchdown zone which is 1500 past
the beginning of the landing area. That means that if the
airplane landed without any float in the flare it would have
4300 feet of icy and snow packed runway to stop on before
departing the paved surface. If it floated to the end of
the touchdown zone, where a go-around is required by FAR, it
would have only 2800 feet on which to stop.
I would like to know why the PIC did not divert to O'Hare or
some other airport. Seems pretty simple , the plane stopped
right where a calculation indicates it would stop.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Paul kgyy" wrote in message
ups.com...
| yep
|

Jim Macklin wrote:
snip
I would like to know why the PIC did not divert to O'Hare or
some other airport.

Well, my personal theory on not diverting is that no Southwest captain
would be caught dead landing at ORD.

Rachel wrote:

Jim Macklin wrote:
snip
I would like to know why the PIC did not divert to O'Hare or
some other airport.

Well, my personal theory on not diverting is that no Southwest captain
would be caught dead landing at ORD.

So he kills someone at Midway instead? Poor judgement.

Ron Lee

Ron Lee wrote:
Rachel wrote:


Jim Macklin wrote:
snip

I would like to know why the PIC did not divert to O'Hare or
some other airport.

Well, my personal theory on not diverting is that no Southwest captain
would be caught dead landing at ORD.


So he kills someone at Midway instead? Poor judgement.

Ron Lee

Wouldn't be the first time a pilot killed someone because of poor judgement.

Rachel wrote:

Well, my personal theory on not diverting is that no Southwest captain
would be caught dead landing at ORD.


So he kills someone at Midway instead? Poor judgement.

Ron Lee

Wouldn't be the first time a pilot killed someone because of poor judgement.

Was it American at Little Rock not long ago? Several on the
plane..possibly the pilot as well, died.

Ron Lee

Ron Lee wrote:
Rachel wrote:


Well, my personal theory on not diverting is that no Southwest captain
would be caught dead landing at ORD.


So he kills someone at Midway instead? Poor judgement.

Ron Lee

Wouldn't be the first time a pilot killed someone because of poor judgement.


Was it American at Little Rock not long ago? Several on the
plane..possibly the pilot as well, died.

Ron Lee

First officer survived, captain was killed. I went to school with his
daughter...it certainly ends the blame game when you know the people
involved.

But let's be honest...there's so much poor judgement and poor decision
making out there, and it's not confined to aviation. And hindsight is
20/20, you know? Only thing we can do is to try to learn from the
mistakes others make.

In article ,
Rachel wrote:

Jim Macklin wrote:
snip
I would like to know why the PIC did not divert to O'Hare or
some other airport.

Well, my personal theory on not diverting is that no Southwest captain
would be caught dead landing at ORD.

Besides, it would spoil Southwest's fine tradition of studly landings on
short runways. http://avstop.com/news/swairlines.html

rg

The fact that this is the airline's first fatal crash in nearly 35
years of operation speaks volumes about its safety culture. I'd put
its record up against any airline's.

Agreed, but it was a stupid thing to do, MDW is marginal on
good VFR days. IFR caused by low ceilings and visibilities
are not really a problem either, you either see and land on
a dry or wet runway or make a missed approach. But snow and
icy runways have poor braking, runway light obscured,
white-out conditions with attendant landing problems.
Airline pilots are well trained and regimented. This can be
good or bad. When "company pressure" makes non-operational
needs, such as the companies bottom line or on-time record,
more important issues can take a backseat.

PIC means that you take the heat, if necessary, from
passengers, chief pilot and upper management when you spend
a few hundred or thousands of dollars diverting. A good
chief pilot will support a well reasoned decision to divert.
There should be a pat on the back for a good safe diversion,
but often it is "chicken, we got in OK, why did everybody
else except you land." [The fact is that is rarely true,
lots of pilots divert or delay, but since they didn't crash,
who knows.]


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"beavis" wrote in message
...
| The fact that this is the airline's first fatal crash in
nearly 35
| years of operation speaks volumes about its safety
culture. I'd put
| its record up against any airline's.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:vVpmf.17957$QW2.13192@dukeread08...
Agreed, but it was a stupid thing to do, MDW is marginal on
good VFR days. IFR caused by low ceilings and visibilities
are not really a problem either, you either see and land on
a dry or wet runway or make a missed approach. But snow and
icy runways have poor braking, runway light obscured,
white-out conditions with attendant landing problems.
Airline pilots are well trained and regimented. This can be
good or bad. When "company pressure" makes non-operational
needs, such as the companies bottom line or on-time record,
more important issues can take a backseat.

PIC means that you take the heat, if necessary, from
passengers, chief pilot and upper management when you spend
a few hundred or thousands of dollars diverting. A good
chief pilot will support a well reasoned decision to divert.
There should be a pat on the back for a good safe diversion,
but often it is "chicken, we got in OK, why did everybody
else except you land." [The fact is that is rarely true,
lots of pilots divert or delay, but since they didn't crash,
who knows.]

You need to call the NTSB. They say it could take them a year to determine
the cause of the accident. You seem to have figured it out without having
been there. I am sure they will appreciate the help.

--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"beavis" wrote in message
...
| The fact that this is the airline's first fatal crash in
nearly 35
| years of operation speaks volumes about its safety
culture. I'd put
| its record up against any airline's.