MDW Overrun - SWA

In article ,
Rachel wrote:

Jim Macklin wrote:
snip
I would like to know why the PIC did not divert to O'Hare or
some other airport.

Well, my personal theory on not diverting is that no Southwest captain
would be caught dead landing at ORD.

Besides, it would spoil Southwest's fine tradition of studly landings on
short runways. http://avstop.com/news/swairlines.html

rg

The fact that this is the airline's first fatal crash in nearly 35
years of operation speaks volumes about its safety culture. I'd put
its record up against any airline's.

Agreed, but it was a stupid thing to do, MDW is marginal on
good VFR days. IFR caused by low ceilings and visibilities
are not really a problem either, you either see and land on
a dry or wet runway or make a missed approach. But snow and
icy runways have poor braking, runway light obscured,
white-out conditions with attendant landing problems.
Airline pilots are well trained and regimented. This can be
good or bad. When "company pressure" makes non-operational
needs, such as the companies bottom line or on-time record,
more important issues can take a backseat.

PIC means that you take the heat, if necessary, from
passengers, chief pilot and upper management when you spend
a few hundred or thousands of dollars diverting. A good
chief pilot will support a well reasoned decision to divert.
There should be a pat on the back for a good safe diversion,
but often it is "chicken, we got in OK, why did everybody
else except you land." [The fact is that is rarely true,
lots of pilots divert or delay, but since they didn't crash,
who knows.]


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"beavis" wrote in message
...
| The fact that this is the airline's first fatal crash in
nearly 35
| years of operation speaks volumes about its safety
culture. I'd put
| its record up against any airline's.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:vVpmf.17957$QW2.13192@dukeread08...
Agreed, but it was a stupid thing to do, MDW is marginal on
good VFR days. IFR caused by low ceilings and visibilities
are not really a problem either, you either see and land on
a dry or wet runway or make a missed approach. But snow and
icy runways have poor braking, runway light obscured,
white-out conditions with attendant landing problems.
Airline pilots are well trained and regimented. This can be
good or bad. When "company pressure" makes non-operational
needs, such as the companies bottom line or on-time record,
more important issues can take a backseat.

PIC means that you take the heat, if necessary, from
passengers, chief pilot and upper management when you spend
a few hundred or thousands of dollars diverting. A good
chief pilot will support a well reasoned decision to divert.
There should be a pat on the back for a good safe diversion,
but often it is "chicken, we got in OK, why did everybody
else except you land." [The fact is that is rarely true,
lots of pilots divert or delay, but since they didn't crash,
who knows.]

You need to call the NTSB. They say it could take them a year to determine
the cause of the accident. You seem to have figured it out without having
been there. I am sure they will appreciate the help.

--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"beavis" wrote in message
...
| The fact that this is the airline's first fatal crash in
nearly 35
| years of operation speaks volumes about its safety
culture. I'd put
| its record up against any airline's.

If I had a spare $10, to bet, you can send my winnings to me
when the NTSB is finished. I correctly described the final
report of the JFK,Jr. NTSB report the day of the crash. I
may be very smart or psychic (or is that psycho) but in any
case, I have no official standing or any reason to withhold
my opinion.
I do KNOW the length of the runway and the configuration of
an ILS. The last time I personally landed at MDW it was in
a blizzard with snow deep enough that the tips of the props
on the King Air 300 were cutting into the snow on the
unplowed taxiways.
I will tell you that 90% of the nose wheel tires on most
airplanes below 40,000 pounds are worn out on the right side
[left side when viewed from the front] and I can teach you
why this is so and improve all your flying technique, but
you'll need to send me more than $10 for that.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P


"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
. com...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:vVpmf.17957$QW2.13192@dukeread08...
| Agreed, but it was a stupid thing to do, MDW is marginal
on
| good VFR days. IFR caused by low ceilings and
visibilities
| are not really a problem either, you either see and land
on
| a dry or wet runway or make a missed approach. But snow
and
| icy runways have poor braking, runway light obscured,
| white-out conditions with attendant landing problems.
| Airline pilots are well trained and regimented. This
can be
| good or bad. When "company pressure" makes
non-operational
| needs, such as the companies bottom line or on-time
record,
| more important issues can take a backseat.
|
| PIC means that you take the heat, if necessary, from
| passengers, chief pilot and upper management when you
spend
| a few hundred or thousands of dollars diverting. A good
| chief pilot will support a well reasoned decision to
divert.
| There should be a pat on the back for a good safe
diversion,
| but often it is "chicken, we got in OK, why did
everybody
| else except you land." [The fact is that is rarely
true,
| lots of pilots divert or delay, but since they didn't
crash,
| who knows.]
|
| You need to call the NTSB. They say it could take them a
year to determine
| the cause of the accident. You seem to have figured it
out without having
| been there. I am sure they will appreciate the help.
|
| --
| James H. Macklin
| ATP,CFI,A&P
|
| "beavis" wrote in message
| ...
| | The fact that this is the airline's first fatal crash
in
| nearly 35
| | years of operation speaks volumes about its safety
| culture. I'd put
| | its record up against any airline's.
|
|
|
|

I will tell you that 90% of the nose wheel tires on most
airplanes below 40,000 pounds are worn out on the right side
[left side when viewed from the front] and I can teach you
why this is so and improve all your flying technique, but
you'll need to send me more than $10 for that.

Okay, 'fess up. Why is this so?

(You'll earn ten bucks off your next stay at the Inn... :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Pilots tend to sit on the left side and not look truly
straight ahead, but look a few degrees toward the center of
the airplane. Thus they think the airplane's longitudinal
axis is not aligned with the direction of travel, since
their reference point is incorrect. I've even seen pilots,
in calm wind conditions, setup a slip to align their
incorrect aim point. Then since they also fail to properly
flare and follow through with the landing, allowing the nose
to slam down when the torque from main wheel spin-up occurs,
the nose wheel tire makes hard contact with the ground while
swinging to the right as the CG corrects their direction of
travel.
The cure is to first get an accurate reference point
directly in front of the pilot, parallel and off-set from
the centerline; Then always get that point pointed straight
down the runway;And follow through with the flare so that
the pilot controls the nose wheel touchdown.

That will also make your airwork better, since that same
reference point is used for in-flight maneuvers and the
attention to detail makes you a better pilot.


BTW, I've actually had a professional pilot, CFI taking a
flight review want to come to blows when I told him what he
was doing. It took a few trips around the pattern before he
saw his error. This is not just a problem with SE trainers,
look at the tires on a Lear or King Air next time you have
the chance, it isn't uncommon to see all the tire wear on
the co-pilot's side because the Captain does all the
landings.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:HxCmf.394396$084.134791@attbi_s22...
| I will tell you that 90% of the nose wheel tires on most
| airplanes below 40,000 pounds are worn out on the right
side
| [left side when viewed from the front] and I can teach
you
| why this is so and improve all your flying technique,
but
| you'll need to send me more than $10 for that.
|
| Okay, 'fess up. Why is this so?
|
| (You'll earn ten bucks off your next stay at the Inn...
:-)
| --
| Jay Honeck
| Iowa City, IA
| Pathfinder N56993
| www.AlexisParkInn.com
| "Your Aviation Destination"
|
|

Flight plan priorities...
1. Get somewhere safely.
2. Get where you planned on going.
3. Get there when you planned to arrive.

Airline priorities...
1. Get to the next scheduled departure on time.
2. Don't lose any bags.
3. Don't leave the gate late, because THAT is what the feds
report for airline quality ratings.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...
| In article ,
| Rachel wrote:
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| snip
| I would like to know why the PIC did not divert to
O'Hare or
| some other airport.
|
| Well, my personal theory on not diverting is that no
Southwest captain
| would be caught dead landing at ORD.
|
| Besides, it would spoil Southwest's fine tradition of
studly landings on
| short runways. http://avstop.com/news/swairlines.html
|
| rg