Nasa Icing courses

("Peter Duniho" wrote)
[snip]
It seems to me that airframe icing is primarily an IFR issue, possibly of
interest to people reading r.a.piloting, and hardly applicable to people
involved in their primary training (the main audience in r.a.student).


Jim (OP) has experience with people involved in their primary training.

Weather is taught to VFR primary students, why not icing?

"Clouds ......recognize and avoid!"
"T-storms ...recognize and avoid!"
"Icing ..........recognize and avoid!"


Montblack

"Montblack" wrote in message
...
Jim (OP) has experience with people involved in their primary training.

Weather is taught to VFR primary students, why not icing?

Because they have enough to learn already?

Seriously though, a primary student's knowledge of icing need not extend
much further than "don't fly when freezing rain is forecast". For extra
credit, a short discussion of what causes freezing rain might be called for.

Most icing occurs inside a cloud, and VFR pilots should not have to worry
about that, or anything else that might happen inside a cloud.

But more importantly (and more to the point) the r.a.student newsgroup is
more about the process of learning to fly, and especially as it applies to
primary students, than it is about any random topic a pilot might be
educated on. Here's the charter:

It's been said that every good pilot is a student pilot -- for
life. This group is dedicated to learning experiences and questions,
particularly (but not exclusively) by and for those who haven't
yet attained the private pilot certificate. Written exams, solo
flights, learning to land, maneuvers, flight tests, instructors
and instructional techniques, etc.

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:
Weather is taught to VFR primary students, why not icing?

Because they have enough to learn already?

Seriously though, a primary student's knowledge of icing need not extend
much further than "don't fly when freezing rain is forecast". For extra
credit, a short discussion of what causes freezing rain might be called for.

I disagree; have you hung around the airport, early in the morning,
on a gorgeous winter day, perfect VFR day, but very cold and all the
aircraft on the ramp have frost or ice on them? you wouldn't believe
the number of folks who don't understand that just brushing off the
worst of it is not good enough...

--Sylvain

"Sylvain" wrote in message
t...
I disagree; have you hung around the airport, early in the morning,
on a gorgeous winter day, perfect VFR day, but very cold and all the
aircraft on the ramp have frost or ice on them? you wouldn't believe
the number of folks who don't understand that just brushing off the
worst of it is not good enough...

How is that a disagreement with what I wrote?

My point was not to enumerate all the things a primary student needs to know
about icing. It was simply to point out they don't need to know much, and
regardless the original post was off-topic in r.a.student, no matter HOW
much they need to learn about icing.

The same logic that asserts the original post was on-topic in r.a.student
leads to the conclusion that ANY post that is on-topic in r.a.piloting or
r.a.ifr is on-topic in r.a.student. Clearly that conclusion is false, so by
way of the contradiction so is the logic that led to the conclusion.

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:
How is that a disagreement with what I wrote?

you said, and I quote:

"...a primary student's knowledge of icing need not extend
much further than "don't fly when freezing rain is forecast"..."


That was the specific statement of yours with which I do disagree.

I did illustrate my point with a very specific and real life
example where a primary student's knowledge of icing DOES indeed
need to extend further than don't fly when freezing rain is
forecast.

Don't be so defensive, I was not attacking your beloved
windows operating system! :-)

--Sylvain

"Sylvain" wrote in message
t...
you said, and I quote:

"...a primary student's knowledge of icing need not extend
much further than "don't fly when freezing rain is forecast"..."

That was the specific statement of yours with which I do disagree.

Your reply illustrated no such disagreement. My statement and yours are not
mutually exclusive.

I did illustrate my point with a very specific and real life
example where a primary student's knowledge of icing DOES indeed
need to extend further than don't fly when freezing rain is
forecast.

I never said that it doesn't.

Don't be so defensive, I was not attacking your beloved
windows operating system! :-)

I am of the opinion that no operating system is "beloved". Operating
systems are a stupid way to waste an emotion like love. How that pertains
to this thread at all, I have no idea.

Pete

Pete,
I have read and participate in r.a.s for the last few years. The
newsgroup is not 'restricted' to primary students. There are many
instrument/comercial etc. students there as well and IMHO, the
learnings are never stopped for all pilots.

The website link which Jim provided has section on ground icing as
well. The information benefits all pilots and not just IFR rated
pilots.

Again, IMHO, there are no such things as too much information when
it comes to safety issues. Weather is totally unpredictable, VFR
pilots can encounter icing unintentionally. I had posted the account
of my first encounter with freezing rain about this time last year (not
in weather forecast, we were not in the cloud). What happened to us
could have happened to many pilots including primary students on a
solo VFR flight.

Any perceived problem with cross postings of on-topic subject is
quite insignificant in comparison to the numerous off topic, thread
hijacking branching out to politic and religious discussions seen at
rec.avatiation newgroups!

Hai Longworth

"Longworth" wrote in message
ups.com...
Pete,
I have read and participate in r.a.s for the last few years. The
newsgroup is not 'restricted' to primary students.

I never said it was. Please don't put words in my mouth. It does nothing
to support your point, and makes you look dishonest.

[...]
Any perceived problem with cross postings of on-topic subject is
quite insignificant in comparison to the numerous off topic, thread
hijacking branching out to politic and religious discussions seen at
rec.avatiation newgroups!

Your statement is quite ironic, given how this thread got hijacked into a
r.a.owning issue ("engine making metal"). IMHO, that's a perfect
illustration why excessive cross-posting is such a problem (never mind the
divergent threads that wouldn't be on-topic in any rec.aviation.*
newsgroup).

Your other statements are classic slippery-slope logic. The fact is, lots
of topics would be of possible interest to many if not all of the people who
frequent the various rec.aviation.* newsgroups. Unfortunately for your
argument, that's not justification for posting messages on those topics.

Pete

Pete,
My post is in reference to several points that you made below.

Regarding thread hijacking, I don't have problems with thread
branching out to other topics. Using google, at least the branch was
labeled Engine making metal. It is not the same as branching or
hijacking to non-aviation related discussions on politics and
religions.

I think I have sufficiently expressed my opinion on cross postings
and off-topic subject and do not wish to engage in any further
discussions here to conserve bandwidth.

Hai Longworth



================================================== =========================

Weather is taught to VFR primary students, why not icing?



Because they have enough to learn already?

Seriously though, a primary student's knowledge of icing need not
extend
much further than "don't fly when freezing rain is forecast". For
extra
credit, a short discussion of what causes freezing rain might be called
for.


Most icing occurs inside a cloud, and VFR pilots should not have to
worry
about that, or anything else that might happen inside a cloud.


But more importantly (and more to the point) the r.a.student newsgroup
is
more about the process of learning to fly, and especially as it applies
to
primary students
.....

Pete