UAV's and TFR's along the Mexico boarder

"JD" == John Doe writes:
JD Why can't the UAV just fly along under an IFR flight plan and
JD everyone else just avoid the little thing just like any other
JD plane on an IFR flight plan?

Because that's not the way it works in VMC. In VMC, *everybody*
avoids everybody else visually, as well as with other aids (ATC). So
if the "little thing" is flying, and I'm flying, and it's VMC and I'm
not talking to ATC, and I don't see that "little thing", and of course
nobody is onboard the UAV to see me....midairs happen.

"Bob Fry" wrote in message
news
"JD" == John Doe writes:
JD Why can't the UAV just fly along under an IFR flight plan and
JD everyone else just avoid the little thing just like any other
JD plane on an IFR flight plan?

Because that's not the way it works in VMC. In VMC, *everybody*
avoids everybody else visually, as well as with other aids (ATC). So
if the "little thing" is flying, and I'm flying, and it's VMC and I'm
not talking to ATC, and I don't see that "little thing", and of course
nobody is onboard the UAV to see me....midairs happen.

Ok, you just contradicted yourself.

If you're flying in VMC and you don't see that "little thing", and have a
midair, it's your fault. Why does it matter if anyone is on board the UAV
or not?

Personally I think a NOTAM saying when/where the UAVs will be should be
enough for VFR pilots to avoid the thing. Why do we need a TFR?

If you're flying in VMC and you don't see that "little thing", and have a
midair, it's your fault.

It's also partly the UAV's fault. Everything is required to see and
avaoid in VMC.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

("Jose" wrote)
It's also partly the UAV's fault. Everything is required to see and
avaoid in VMC.


That's pretty much what the 'illegals' on the ground are trying to do also -
see and avoid.


Montblack

John Doe wrote:

If you're flying in VMC and you don't see that "little thing", and have a
midair, it's your fault. Why does it matter if anyone is on board the UAV
or not?

Who cares whose fault it is? You're much more likely to be blindsided by one of
these things than by an aircraft piloted by someone who isn't suicidal.

Personally I think a NOTAM saying when/where the UAVs will be should be
enough for VFR pilots to avoid the thing. Why do we need a TFR?

Put out a NOTAM, and the people smugglers will be able to find out what areas
aren't being patrolled at the moment.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

"George Patterson" wrote \

Put out a NOTAM, and the people smugglers will be able to find out what
areas aren't being patrolled at the moment.

How about a NOTAM that says the areas involved, and the altitude the thing
will be flying at, and leave the notam in place. Then, all you have to do
is avoid, say 2000 feet and you will not hit/be hit by it.
--
Jim in NC

John Doe wrote:
"Bob Fry" wrote in message
news
"JD" == John Doe writes:
JD Why can't the UAV just fly along under an IFR flight plan and
JD everyone else just avoid the little thing just like any other
JD plane on an IFR flight plan?

Because that's not the way it works in VMC. In VMC, *everybody*
avoids everybody else visually, as well as with other aids (ATC). So
if the "little thing" is flying, and I'm flying, and it's VMC and I'm
not talking to ATC, and I don't see that "little thing", and of course
nobody is onboard the UAV to see me....midairs happen.

Ok, you just contradicted yourself.

If you're flying in VMC and you don't see that "little thing", and have a
midair, it's your fault. Why does it matter if anyone is on board the UAV
or not?

Personally I think a NOTAM saying when/where the UAVs will be should be
enough for VFR pilots to avoid the thing. Why do we need a TFR?

Answer a question for me: is this a little bitty slow UAV that's hard
to see from any kind of distance or one of the larger, faster ones that
can run a light plane down from behind where the pilot couldn't see it
coming?

John Keeney wrote:

Answer a question for me: is this a little bitty slow UAV that's hard
to see from any kind of distance or one of the larger, faster ones that
can run a light plane down from behind where the pilot couldn't see it
coming?

Someone claimed that a 182 wouldn't be able to carry all the gear that this
thing does. That would argue for the larger aircraft.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

"George Patterson" wrote

Someone claimed that a 182 wouldn't be able to carry all the gear that
this thing does. That would argue for the larger aircraft.

It seems to me that a couple of factors figure in, on why they choose the
UAV over the 182. (or bigger)

1. A computer geek can fly the 182, with nowhere near the training of the
182 pilot.
2. The time on station is hard to beat, with a UAV. 12 hours would be near
impossible for a 182 pilot, if not impossible, very uncomfortable. The UAV
dood can get his backup to take turns, go pee, eat, whatever.
3. If you were using 182's, it would just be a matter of time, before you
lost your first crew. News break: small planes do crash.
4. UAV's can do their mission in nearly all weather. Ice would be about
the only thing that would keep them on the ground. They even flew these
things in hurricane recon missions. You can't say the same about spam cans.
They would be frequently grounded, due to weather.
5. You can have a whole crew of specialists, monitoring a large number of
instruments. You could only take the pilot, and one or two, in the 182.
Go large enough to accommodate a large crew, and watch operating costs go
up, with the larger plane.

I am not in favor of sharing airspace, without a better workaround than what
is being proposed, but I do see why UAV's are attractive to the gubermint.
--
Jim in NC

George Patterson wrote:
John Keeney wrote:

Answer a question for me: is this a little bitty slow UAV that's hard
to see from any kind of distance or one of the larger, faster ones that
can run a light plane down from behind where the pilot couldn't see it
coming?

Someone claimed that a 182 wouldn't be able to carry all the gear that this
thing does. That would argue for the larger aircraft.

Well, one of the more favored UAVs is the size of the 737...