Cost of State Registration?

I'm not an owner but I have to say I'm stunned...

Considering how much dinero the state of Arizona wants for me to register
earth-bound vehicles, I would have supposed it costs far more to register an
aircraft than it would appear it does.

Very interesting...

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
AZ Cloudbusters
Chandler, AZ

Jay Beckman wrote:

Considering how much dinero the state of Arizona wants for me to register
earth-bound vehicles, I would have supposed it costs far more to register an
aircraft than it would appear it does.

Arizona uses the auto registration money to support roads for those autos. How
much does Arizona spend on facilities for aircraft?

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:_WrBf.15463$Me5.5086@trnddc05...
Jay Beckman wrote:

Considering how much dinero the state of Arizona wants for me to register
earth-bound vehicles, I would have supposed it costs far more to register
an aircraft than it would appear it does.

Arizona uses the auto registration money to support roads for those autos.
How much does Arizona spend on facilities for aircraft?

George Patterson

I think Arizona pilots are getting their fare share of Government monies:

From:

http://www.azdot.gov/aviation/index.asp

I found this report on Arizona's five year aviation plan:

http://shorterlink.com/?ZIRW7N

And then you have this from AOPA's Regional Affairs section:

------- Begin Quote -----
May 27, 2004 - In a textbook example of unified general aviation interests,
airports, pilots, and aviation advocates have put two measures on the desk
of Gov. Janet Napolitano (D-Ariz.) that should significantly increase state
funding for airport safety and capacity improvements and reduce aviation
taxes.

AOPA Western Regional Representative Stacy Howard and Michael Racy, the
Airport Support Network volunteer for Marana Regional Airport and a
registered lobbyist who represents the Tucson Airport Authority and Pima
County, helped convince lawmakers to use 100% of the state's
aviation-related tax and fee revenues to help fix general aviation airports.
The two also helped win approval for SB1020, a bill to reduce the state's
tax on antique aircraft.

During the budget crunch of the past several fiscal years, Arizona had
diverted approximately half ($7 million to $8 million annually) of the
aviation fuel taxes, aircraft registration fees, and aircraft property taxes
the state collects to the general fund. Governor Napolitano this year
proposed rededicating all those aviation taxes to help maintain airports - a
move strongly supported by AOPA and this week approved by state lawmakers.

Howard testified before both legislative chambers supporting SB1020. The
measure cuts the tax on an estimated 700 "antique" aircraft from 0.5% of
value to a flat $20 annual fee. AOPA members in Arizona played a big role,
contacting legislators and convincing them to remove procedural hurdles to
the bill's passage.

----- End Quote -----

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
AZ Cloudbusters
Chandler, AZ

How many miles of roads does your car use, compared to miles
of runway?



--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:QwnBf.11236$jR.2385@fed1read01...
| I'm not an owner but I have to say I'm stunned...
|
| Considering how much dinero the state of Arizona wants for
me to register
| earth-bound vehicles, I would have supposed it costs far
more to register an
| aircraft than it would appear it does.
|
| Very interesting...
|
| Jay Beckman
| PP-ASEL
| AZ Cloudbusters
| Chandler, AZ
|
|

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:jLvBf.69411$QW2.129@dukeread08...
How many miles of roads does your car use, compared to miles
of runway?


Well, that really wasn't my point...

I didn't put a lot of emphasis on it, but what I was getting at was the cost
to register versus the cost of the vehicle being registered.

Aircraft cost more than cars but (it would seem) cost far less to register
on a "per thousand dollars of value" basis.

I was mearly expressing a sense of suprise...I'm certainly not advocating
that pilots dig deeper than they already have to.

And as I said, I'm not an owner so I'm only reacting to the actual numbers
being quoted without a complete understanding of additonal taxes and fees
that go with buying an owning.

Jay B

"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:_8wBf.11272$jR.8415@fed1read01...
"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:jLvBf.69411$QW2.129@dukeread08...
How many miles of roads does your car use, compared to miles
of runway?

Well, that really wasn't my point...

I didn't put a lot of emphasis on it, but what I was getting at was the
cost to register versus the cost of the vehicle being registered.

But your "point" ignored the reality of the situation. At least in some
respects, supporting a motor vehicle costs more than supporting an airplane.
So why shouldn't the tax on a "per-value" basis be more?

I don't think it's legitimate to compare taxes between different kinds of
goods and expect them to come out the same on a "per-value" basis.
Otherwise, we could just have a single sales/use tax on everything, right?

Does it seem odd to you that your home isn't taxed the same rate on a
"per-value" basis as your car? That would be just as valid a point as the
one you were making in your post.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:_8wBf.11272$jR.8415@fed1read01...
"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:jLvBf.69411$QW2.129@dukeread08...
How many miles of roads does your car use, compared to miles
of runway?

Well, that really wasn't my point...

I didn't put a lot of emphasis on it, but what I was getting at was the
cost to register versus the cost of the vehicle being registered.

But your "point" ignored the reality of the situation. At least in some
respects, supporting a motor vehicle costs more than supporting an
airplane. So why shouldn't the tax on a "per-value" basis be more?


Valid point.

I don't think it's legitimate to compare taxes between different kinds of
goods and expect them to come out the same on a "per-value" basis.
Otherwise, we could just have a single sales/use tax on everything, right?

Also true.

Does it seem odd to you that your home isn't taxed the same rate on a
"per-value" basis as your car? That would be just as valid a point as the
one you were making in your post.

Fair 'nuff.

Jay B

Governments only have a right to tax for services rendered
and only for services actually wanted by the public.
Passing a law to require that you use a "service" just so
you can tax is an abuse. Unfortunately, governments have
the power to tax for whatever they want, whenever they want.
As has been said, the power to tax is the power to destroy.

Most state aviation departments, if they even have one, do
little but duplicate Federal regulations, inspections and
controls. Small airports are owned by cities, counties and
private individuals [who are taxed very heavily] and few
states actually own any airports. Some states do provide
real services and the pilots and passengers in those states
get a benefit. But many states just tax because they can.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:_8wBf.11272$jR.8415@fed1read01...
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:jLvBf.69411$QW2.129@dukeread08...
| How many miles of roads does your car use, compared to
miles
| of runway?
|
|
| Well, that really wasn't my point...
|
| I didn't put a lot of emphasis on it, but what I was
getting at was the cost
| to register versus the cost of the vehicle being
registered.
|
| Aircraft cost more than cars but (it would seem) cost far
less to register
| on a "per thousand dollars of value" basis.
|
| I was mearly expressing a sense of suprise...I'm certainly
not advocating
| that pilots dig deeper than they already have to.
|
| And as I said, I'm not an owner so I'm only reacting to
the actual numbers
| being quoted without a complete understanding of additonal
taxes and fees
| that go with buying an owning.
|
| Jay B
|
|

Jay Beckman wrote:

I didn't put a lot of emphasis on it, but what I was getting at was the cost
to register versus the cost of the vehicle being registered.

But you still seem to have missed the point. The major point of license fees is
to pay the costs of infrastructure. There's a lot of that with cars, so the
registration cost is high. There's comparatively little of that for light
aircraft, so the registration fees are low. The fees have nothing to do with the
relative values of the aircraft and autos, and shouldn't have.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:6XBBf.7851$zh2.3507@trnddc01...
Jay Beckman wrote:

I didn't put a lot of emphasis on it, but what I was getting at was the
cost to register versus the cost of the vehicle being registered.

But you still seem to have missed the point. The major point of license
fees is to pay the costs of infrastructure. There's a lot of that with
cars, so the registration cost is high. There's comparatively little of
that for light aircraft, so the registration fees are low. The fees have
nothing to do with the relative values of the aircraft and autos, and
shouldn't have.

George Patterson

As it applies in your explaination, I'd have to agree.

Now, let me ask this (simply as a point of discussion):

Does our use of aviation's "infrastructure" really end when the wheels leave
the ground?

With the FAA crying poverty and the spectre of "Use Fees" looming over GA,
what happens when the argument becomes:

Pilots are using an "aviation infrastructure" anytime we're flying in the
National Airspace System."

- IFR flying?
- VFR pilots requesting flight following?
- Operations at Towered airports?
- Class B, C or D transitions?
- FSS?
- Flight Watch?

Are we ever truly free of, or without need of, the GA "infrastructure?"

Your thoughts?

Jay B