Airplane design.

-----------much informative stuff snipped---------
(till homebuilders got to them!)

Very true! Plus the ones that found their way into and onto dune buggies,
small airboats, old BMW motorcycles, and heaven knows what else. The same
problem is true of Corvair engines, of which I've even seem one mounted in
the bed of a pick-up truck and driving an electric generator. The BMW 600
and 700 automobiles were never popular enough to have single seat aircraft
designed around them, at least in the US, and the little air cooled Subaru
engines were probably gone from the stock-piles before the Part 103
ultralight rule allowed 254 pounds empty. I suspect that the BMW and Soob
engines would have been chosen over the 1/2VW if availability permitted.

Peter Dohm wrote:
-----------much informative stuff snipped---------
(till homebuilders got to them!)

Very true! Plus the ones that found their way into and onto dune buggies,
small airboats, old BMW motorcycles, and heaven knows what else. The same
problem is true of Corvair engines, of which I've even seem one mounted in
the bed of a pick-up truck and driving an electric generator. The BMW 600
and 700 automobiles were never popular enough to have single seat aircraft
designed around them, at least in the US, and the little air cooled Subaru
engines were probably gone from the stock-piles before the Part 103
ultralight rule allowed 254 pounds empty. I suspect that the BMW and Soob
engines would have been chosen over the 1/2VW if availability permitted.



Nope.

The nonautomotive uses of VWs-the most creative was probably the 2
cylinder integral air compressor-and dune buggy building made only the
smallest dent in VW supplies. They sold probably fifteen million
aircooled VWs in this country and probably fifty thousand dune buggies
were the high point.

The BMW 600 and 700 used BMW motorcycle engine cores and the bikes
were far more popular.

The Citroen 2CV twins and GS fours were used in homebuilt airplanes
and kit bikes in Europe. Same deal.

Corvairs have probably had the highest percentage of predation along
with the 215 aluminum GM V8 but in both cases more have been summarilyy
scrapped than all hobby uses combined. Corvairs are still not
scarce-any old smallblock brings more money most of the time.

Just as a friendly challenge to anyone foolish enough...

Design an airplane within the 254 pound weight limit.

Clean sheet of paper.
254 pounds empty weight.
Your choice of engines, design, materials.

Where would you start?

Richard

Just as a friendly challenge to anyone foolish enough...
Design an airplane within the 254 pound weight limit.

IFR or not? Does it have to be able to fly into known icing?



Ben Hallert
PP-ASEL - http://hallert.net/cozy/

Ben Hallert wrote:

Just as a friendly challenge to anyone foolish enough...
Design an airplane within the 254 pound weight limit.


IFR or not? Does it have to be able to fly into known icing?



Ben Hallert
PP-ASEL - http://hallert.net/cozy/


Uh, no.

And day VFR seams more reasonable.
Although I do love flying at night...

Ben Hallert wrote:
Just as a friendly challenge to anyone foolish enough...
Design an airplane within the 254 pound weight limit.

IFR or not? Does it have to be able to fly into known icing?



LOL! Pressurized? Retractable gear?

The only thing stopping me from hanging tricycle gear and a pair of
JetCat 200 turbojets off my Wright machine is the $10k+ cost of the
engines. Supose I could just use a pair of chainsaw motors... or even
6 model airplane engines, but that wouldn't be nearly as cool. By
Wilbur's calcs, the 1902 glider only requires 6 hp at 30 kts cruise.
Stall is at 14, and Vne is about 50 kts. Of course it'll still fly
like crap compared to a modern UL, but then the design is 104 years
old.

Harry

("Richard Lamb" wrote)
Design an airplane within the 254 pound weight limit.

Clean sheet of paper.
254 pounds empty weight.
Your choice of engines, design, materials.

Where would you start?


Cri-Cri type
Twin diesels - torque, torque, torque
Wings that rock - "control wing" "free wing"

http://www.flyingflea.org/docs/SprattControlwing.htm

http://www.airandspacemagazine.com/ASM/Mag/Index/1995/DJ/ssfw.html

Original CriCri's weighed approx 150lbs, that included two 9hp engines. 150
lbs - total!

150 lbs - (15# engine + 15# engine) = 120 lbs - 20 lbs other stuff = 100 lbs
of plane building material.

So I'm thinking ...how much would (guessing) 60lbs of Titanium cost?


Montblackium

Montblack wrote:
("Richard Lamb" wrote)

Design an airplane within the 254 pound weight limit.

Clean sheet of paper.
254 pounds empty weight.
Your choice of engines, design, materials.

Where would you start?



Cri-Cri type
Twin diesels - torque, torque, torque
Wings that rock - "control wing" "free wing"

http://www.flyingflea.org/docs/SprattControlwing.htm

http://www.airandspacemagazine.com/ASM/Mag/Index/1995/DJ/ssfw.html

Original CriCri's weighed approx 150lbs, that included two 9hp engines.
150 lbs - total!

150 lbs - (15# engine + 15# engine) = 120 lbs - 20 lbs other stuff = 100
lbs of plane building material.

So I'm thinking ...how much would (guessing) 60lbs of Titanium cost?


Montblackium


So, why did they put two engines on that small of of an airplane?
Was it to get around the 61 kts stall speed requirement? (I believe two
engine airplanes don't need to meet that...) Or was it just because they
could?

"Stuart Grey" wrote in message
...
Montblack wrote:
("Richard Lamb" wrote)

Design an airplane within the 254 pound weight limit.

Clean sheet of paper.
254 pounds empty weight.
Your choice of engines, design, materials.

Where would you start?



Cri-Cri type
Twin diesels - torque, torque, torque
Wings that rock - "control wing" "free wing"

http://www.flyingflea.org/docs/SprattControlwing.htm

http://www.airandspacemagazine.com/ASM/Mag/Index/1995/DJ/ssfw.html

Original CriCri's weighed approx 150lbs, that included two 9hp engines.
150 lbs - total!

150 lbs - (15# engine + 15# engine) = 120 lbs - 20 lbs other stuff = 100
lbs of plane building material.

So I'm thinking ...how much would (guessing) 60lbs of Titanium cost?


Montblackium


So, why did they put two engines on that small of of an airplane?
Was it to get around the 61 kts stall speed requirement? (I believe two
engine airplanes don't need to meet that...) Or was it just because they
could?

I really don't know either. But it is a pretty old design, so it is
possible that the designed was simply not aware of a suitable single engine
at the time. It is also possible that there was concern about the fuselage
reducing the thrust of a very small prop--the props do operate in relatively
undisturbed air and have plenty of clear space behind them.

To the best of my recollection, the designer really was an aeronautical
engineer--which I am not.

Peter