FAR 91.130 and the Definite Article

Getting close to the edge of Hartford's Class D, I tried to get the
controller's attention to ask for a frequency change, but the freq was
busy and I couldn't break in. Eventually, I found a hole and he
turned me over to HFD tower, but by that time I was deep in the CDAS.

I had (naively?) assumed he had coordinated with HFD, but apparantly
not. I got the "call me when you land" deal, and when I called, the
tower controller proceeded to rip me a new one on the phone.

We had this EXACT thing happen to us, flying into Class D Janesville (KJVL),
WI while utilizing Rockford Approach (KRFD) for VFR flight following.

I wrote about the incident here, and the conversation went on for weeks --
so don't expect a consensus view of this type of affair. It's the only time
Mary and I have felt the need to file a NASA report.

Now, when we fly into KJVL, we cut Rockford Approach off 15 miles out. When
coming into Class D (for DUMB) airspace, approach control has proven
themselves to be far more trouble than they're worth.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I was approaching Rockford frome the north and apparently nicked the
very edge of Janeville Class D while talking to Rockford Approach the
whole time and Rockford jumped all over me about it. There is something
weird going on with those two.
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes - http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html
Because we fly, we envy no one.

Gene Seibel wrote:

I was approaching Rockford frome the north and apparently nicked the
very edge of Janeville Class D while talking to Rockford Approach the
whole time and Rockford jumped all over me about it.

Then tell him what the rules are.

I was approaching Rockford frome the north and apparently nicked the
very edge of Janeville Class D while talking to Rockford Approach the
whole time and Rockford jumped all over me about it. There is something
weird going on with those two.

Yeah, there was something odd going on all over the upper Midwest that day.

Usually, each approach control seamlessly hands us off on our frequent
flights to Wisconsin. This time, Cedar Rapids cut us off as we approached
the Mississippi (this NEVER, ever happens with CID), and we had to ask for a
hand-off to Chicago Center. He cheerfully (they are always great at CID)
did this, but then Chicago Center handed us off to Rockford -- who wouldn't
hand us off to Madison.

Then Madison cut us off without handing us off to Milwaukee. Very odd,
indeed -- it's usually a seamless thing between all but Milwaukee, who
apparently never accept hand-offs from anyone.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:

snip

Then Madison cut us off without handing us off to Milwaukee. Very odd,
indeed -- it's usually a seamless thing between all but Milwaukee, who
apparently never accept hand-offs from anyone.

Returning to Waukesha from Iron Mountain last fall Chicago center ASKED me
if I wanted to be handed off to Milwaukee. I was so surprised I almost
didn't know how to answer. I was even more amazed when it actually
happened!

--
Frank....H

"Gene Seibel" wrote in message
oups.com...

I was approaching Rockford frome the north and apparently nicked the
very edge of Janeville Class D while talking to Rockford Approach the
whole time and Rockford jumped all over me about it. There is something
weird going on with those two.


The Rockford controller was in error. He was required to coordinate with
Janesville tower.


FAA Order 7110.65P Air Traffic Control

Chapter 2. General Control

Section 1. General

2-1-16. SURFACE AREAS

a. Coordinate with the appropriate nonapproach control tower on an
individual aircraft basis before issuing a clearance which would require
flight within a surface area for which the tower has responsibility unless
otherwise specified in a letter of agreement.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7210.3, Letters of Agreement, Para 4-3-1.
14 CFR Section 91.127, Operating on or in the Vicinity of an Airport in
Class E Airspace.
P/CG Term- Surface Area.

b. Coordinate with the appropriate control tower for transit authorization
when you are providing radar traffic advisory service to an aircraft that
will enter another facility's airspace.

NOTE-
The pilot is not expected to obtain his/her own authorization through each
area when in contact with a radar facility.

c. Transfer communications to the appropriate facility, if required, prior
to operation within a surface area for which the tower has responsibility.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Radio Communications Transfer, Para 2-1-17.
FAAO 7110.65, Surface Area Restrictions, Para 3-1-11.
FAAO 7110.65, Application, Para 7-6-1.
14 CFR Section 91.129, Operations in Class D Airspace.