Military Airfield Procedures..

"Dan" wrote in message
oups.com...
Last night I took a quick trip to KYUM. On approach, the controller
mentioned that the "arresting gear was up" on the runway I was to land
on. Being unfamiliar with arresting gear and flying an Archer, I asked
the controller specifically what that meant. He indicated that it
consisted of a cable stretched across the runway about 6 inches high.
Since it seemed that this could seriously damage an Archer, I made sure
to land beyond it. (although it's exact position was difficult to
determine at night.)

Does anyone know what would have happened if I had landed on it? This
type of thing seems quite dangerous to GA aircraft.

IT IS!

You could easily find yourself without your landing gear if you land before
the cable.


On another note, as I was inbound on the ILS, the tower handed me over
to someone else for a "monitored" approach. This controller called my
position on the ILS and advised of any deviations. There was no
parallel ILS in progress. Is this just the way things are done at a
military field?


Yes.

"David Cartwright" wrote in message
...
"Dan" wrote in message
oups.com...
Last night I took a quick trip to KYUM. On approach, the controller
mentioned that the "arresting gear was up" on the runway
Does anyone know what would have happened if I had landed on it? This
type of thing seems quite dangerous to GA aircraft.

One has to wonder why they didn't put it down for you (the fact that they
said it was up suggests it was retractable). As for what would have
happened - well, it would almost certainly have damaged your landing gear.


I think this is holdover from previous arresting gear terminology. There
are still web type devices that are actually "up" and then retracted when
not needed. Most cables are "strung" across the runway. At most fields,
changing a cable configuration is a manual process that takes a couple of
guys about 20 minutes or so to accomplish. Not something they will do for a
GA arrival.

David Cartwright wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message
oups.com...

Last night I took a quick trip to KYUM. On approach, the controller
mentioned that the "arresting gear was up" on the runway
Does anyone know what would have happened if I had landed on it? This
type of thing seems quite dangerous to GA aircraft.


One has to wonder why they didn't put it down for you (the fact that they
said it was up suggests it was retractable). As for what would have
happened - well, it would almost certainly have damaged your landing gear.


The cable was probably manually operated only. Normal configuration for
manual cables is to have the approach end cable removed, and the
departure end cable strung across the runway. That way, military jets
that have brake failure or abort takeoff can snag it and come to a stop.
If the wind shifts and requires a runway change, then the tower has to
direct a crew out there to change the cable configuration. They may not
have had enough time to do that before you came in, or you may have been
operating "opposite direction" in able to get the ILS approach. There's
a good article about cables at the following link, it even mentions an
incident where an MD-88 snagged a cable during takeoff roll and came to
a stop.
http://www.boeing.com/assocproducts/...ingsystems.pdf

I'm not sure the E-28 cables at Yuma are remotely retractable.

Incidentally, even if the arresting gear was down, you should always try not
to land before it (assuming there's plenty of runway the other side - which
there should be). I did part of my PPL training at RAF Coltishall, which has
arrester gear that sits in a little channel across the runway when it's
down. If you roll over the channel, you get a hell of a bump.

David C


Ahh, RAF Coltishall. I spent 2 tours over in East Anglia. One at
Ben****ers/Woodbridge, the other at Mildenhall. It's amazing how many
airfields they squeezed into such a small area.

John

Is a PAR like the old GCA?

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 19:49:32 -0800, "BTIZ" wrote:

a monitored approach is one step short of a PAR
BT

GeorgeC

"John Doe" wrote in message
news:2fjMf.42118$Dh.501@dukeread04...

"Dan" wrote in message
oups.com...
Last night I took a quick trip to KYUM. On approach, the controller
mentioned that the "arresting gear was up" on the runway I was to land
on. Being unfamiliar with arresting gear and flying an Archer, I asked
the controller specifically what that meant. He indicated that it
consisted of a cable stretched across the runway about 6 inches high.
Since it seemed that this could seriously damage an Archer, I made sure
to land beyond it. (although it's exact position was difficult to
determine at night.)

Does anyone know what would have happened if I had landed on it? This
type of thing seems quite dangerous to GA aircraft.


I've done it in a C-150, at NAS Millington, TN, with a flying club
aircraft. I was unfamiliar, simulating a dead stick with an Instructor, when
we touched down before the last wire. We rolled right over it. No damage.
When I saw we were going to hit it, I held the nosegear well clear, and hit
it with the mains. We were probably still doing about 30kts, and had full
flaps, so there was some lift being generated. I am a little amazed the
cable didn't pop up and strike the tiedown ring on the tail cone which must
have been a foot off the ground or so. Of course the cable is pretty heavy,
and I doubt the 150 moved it much.
The system they used to have installed at Klamath Falls,(Kingsley
Field), had the same wire and donut scheme, but it was connected to what
looked like anchor chain on both sides of the runway. One link was
positioned right next to the prior link, so the chain was very "slack". When
you caught the wire, you pulled one link on each side for about a foot, then
picked up the next link for about a foot. Before long you were dragging many
tons of iron down the runway. I have no doubt that it would stop almost
anything.

Al

"JPH" wrote in message
news9nMf.173258$WH.118923@dukeread01...
Ahh, RAF Coltishall. I spent 2 tours over in East Anglia. One at
Ben****ers/Woodbridge, the other at Mildenhall. It's amazing how many
airfields they squeezed into such a small area.

Well, there are fewer now. Benwaters/Woodbridge closed about 6-7 yrs ago.
Coltishall ceases to be operational on April 1st and will close towards the
end of the year when our last General Aviation ac will also depart. It's all
sad ;-(

When landing at RAF Stations the question asked is "Are you familiar with
the field", referring to the RHAG (rotary hydraulic arresting gear). I just
say "negative, but have the RHAG in site".


Gus Cabre
RAF Coltishall

"Gus Cabre" wrote

When landing at RAF Stations the question asked is "Are you familiar with
the field", referring to the RHAG (rotary hydraulic arresting gear). I
just
say "negative, but have the RHAG in site".

So, how about a quick description of RHAG?
--
Jim in NC

They had, probably still do, at the joint use airport at
Springfield, IL where I learned to fly about 40 years ago.
Runway 4/22 was used by F84F and had a cable that could be
raised by the tower that would catch the nose gear on the
F84F if it ran past a certain point. It used old Navy
anchor chain as weight.


"Morgans" wrote in message
...
|
| "Al" wrote
|
| The system they used to have installed at Klamath
Falls,(Kingsley
| Field), had the same wire and donut scheme, but it was
connected to what
| looked like anchor chain on both sides of the runway.
One link was
| positioned right next to the prior link, so the chain
was very "slack".
| When
| you caught the wire, you pulled one link on each side
for about a foot,
| then
| picked up the next link for about a foot. Before long
you were dragging
| many
| tons of iron down the runway. I have no doubt that it
would stop almost
| anything.
| I have seen the same thing Seymore Johnson AFB, in
Goldsboro NC, and at
| another NC base that I can't remember, at this hour.
| --
| Jim in NC
|

David and others

Before Air Force birds had tail hooks we had a system where a cable
was raised to two/three feet in air. When bird ran into it the cable
caught on nose gear and the chain lengths attached to ends of cable
drug you to a stop.

This arresting gear was normally down and could be raised and lowered
by the tower when required.

This may have been the system in this case. It's been so long since I
retired not sure if they still use it?

The tail hook system can be used at either end of runway so you can
get two chances to use it in an emergency. Approach end and far end.

Any current jocks care to comment on to days systems besides the tail
hook system?

Oh yes, in winter the chains would freeze to ground and had to be
broken loose every day or they would jerk the tail hook off the bird.

On GCA. I made 999 to one ILS. Also made a full zero zero landing on
GCA. Great system.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````

On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:08:20 +0000 (UTC), "David Cartwright"
wrote:

"Dan" wrote in message
roups.com...
Last night I took a quick trip to KYUM. On approach, the controller
mentioned that the "arresting gear was up" on the runway
Does anyone know what would have happened if I had landed on it? This
type of thing seems quite dangerous to GA aircraft.

One has to wonder why they didn't put it down for you (the fact that they
said it was up suggests it was retractable). As for what would have
happened - well, it would almost certainly have damaged your landing gear.

Incidentally, even if the arresting gear was down, you should always try not
to land before it (assuming there's plenty of runway the other side - which
there should be). I did part of my PPL training at RAF Coltishall, which has
arrester gear that sits in a little channel across the runway when it's
down. If you roll over the channel, you get a hell of a bump.

David C

That was the system that was installed at SPI, when the
guard flew F84Fs. When the tower cleared them to land they
always said "The barrier INDICATES UP" which covered the
tower in case the barrier was down.



"Big John" wrote in message
...
| David and others
|
| Before Air Force birds had tail hooks we had a system
where a cable
| was raised to two/three feet in air. When bird ran into it
the cable
| caught on nose gear and the chain lengths attached to ends
of cable
| drug you to a stop.
|
| This arresting gear was normally down and could be raised
and lowered
| by the tower when required.
|
| This may have been the system in this case. It's been so
long since I
| retired not sure if they still use it?
|
| The tail hook system can be used at either end of runway
so you can
| get two chances to use it in an emergency. Approach end
and far end.
|
| Any current jocks care to comment on to days systems
besides the tail
| hook system?
|
| Oh yes, in winter the chains would freeze to ground and
had to be
| broken loose every day or they would jerk the tail hook
off the bird.
|
| On GCA. I made 999 to one ILS. Also made a full zero zero
landing on
| GCA. Great system.
|
| Big John
| `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````
|
| On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:08:20 +0000 (UTC), "David
Cartwright"
| wrote:
|
| "Dan" wrote in message
|
roups.com...
| Last night I took a quick trip to KYUM. On approach,
the controller
| mentioned that the "arresting gear was up" on the
runway
| Does anyone know what would have happened if I had
landed on it? This
| type of thing seems quite dangerous to GA aircraft.
|
| One has to wonder why they didn't put it down for you
(the fact that they
| said it was up suggests it was retractable). As for what
would have
| happened - well, it would almost certainly have damaged
your landing gear.
|
| Incidentally, even if the arresting gear was down, you
should always try not
| to land before it (assuming there's plenty of runway the
other side - which
| there should be). I did part of my PPL training at RAF
Coltishall, which has
| arrester gear that sits in a little channel across the
runway when it's
| down. If you roll over the channel, you get a hell of a
bump.
|
| David C
|
|