Avionics Help/Recommendations Neede

Thanks, so far, for the responses... I'm not ignoring them, just
digesting them... ;-)

I'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty, but am thinking about the
implications and the logistics of going down that road. Evening and
weekends are really the only times I would be able to work on it, and I
don't have any friends that are A&P's or IA's. My mechanic and another
mechanic I know would not likely be excited to help me on evenings or
weekends, just so I can save money.

I would actually love to do something like this, and would love to know
as much as possible about my airplane, and its systems, but I also
recognize that my mechanic aquaintences have businesses to run and
bills to pay, and helping me learn more about my airplane on their free
time might not be a high priority for them.

I haven't talked to any local avionics shops yet, as I was looking to
get feedback here first, so I could have my ducks in a row. I don't
know yet what a typical shops policy is on bringing in equipment and
having them install it, as Brian pointed out.

I would really like to have a long term plan, so that as components of
the stack go belly up, I will already have some idea of what the plan
was for that component anyway. Right now I just need an audio
panel/intercom. I really need a second com too, but as Doug pointed
out, I "could" plug a handheld into a music input of an intercom. My
current intercom doesn't support that, but most new ones do seem to. I
think my "long term" plan would include a second panel mounted com,
with a handheld to be used in case of an electrical failure.

ADF... Don't want it, don't need it. Would open up a lot of space in
the stack if it weren't there.

DME... I would like some kind of "legal" distance measuring display
mechanism in the plane, as there are a lot of approaches that require
DME, and many fixes that are not identifiable from a VOR(s). A
handheld GPS will be a fantastic addition for situational awareness,
but doesn't make for a legal option when DME is required

I "am" willing to take the time and do it right, but certain financial
limitations apply. If somone's interpretation of doing it right is
installing a $30,000 Garmin stack, that just would not be possible.
However if replacing the wire, while replacing the component is doing
it right, then I'm in... It would just be a matter of working out the
previous logistical issues and doing it myself or making that one of
the requirements for any avionics shop that might be doing the work for
me.

Thanks for the responses! I'm still feeling a bit like a wide-eyed
deer looking into the light, but this too shall pass.

Best Regards,
Todd

This is how I have done the 182, the 172 before that, and the 170 before
that.

Radios will change. Audio panels will change. Intercoms will change. The
182 started out life with a 90 channel MK-12 and a Lear ADF. By my count,
it has gone through 43 separate and individual avionics changes in its 50
year history. That's about one every year or so.

None of the radios in the 182 are directly connected to the audio panel, and
I have dual King 170Bs, an amateur (ham) 2 meter rig, and an XM satellite
music radio all running through the audio panel.

Here's the deal, and terminal strip is the mantra. Call up www.mouser.com
and search for "Cinch series 140" (without the quotation marks). It will
tell you that to see the device click on "page 1137". If you are on dialup,
this page will take about a minute to load.

Every radio has its own personal 8-pin terminal strip. Power, ground,
speaker, phones, mic audio, mic key, lights, and a spare. But it doesn't
stop there. Go back to the Mouser search page and search for "Molex .062" "
(without the quotation marks but with the "inch mark after .062). This is a
series of small nylon connectors that go for a couple of bucks each. Been
using both terminal strips and nylon connectors for forty years without a
single failure.

Now, the radio comes with a horrendously expensive (and generally made out
of unobtanium) connector. That connector gets wired to an "intermediate"
nylon connector, and the nylon connector gets wired to the terminal strip.
The terminal strip also gets wired to the audio panel. Thus, to change
audio panels, I simply remove the wires from the terminal strips and run the
new wires to the terminal strips. TO change a radio, I simply wire the new
radio connector into one half of the intermediate connector and it is done.

The terminal strips all reside on a sheet of thin aluminum that is bolted to
the bottom of the radio rack. Why the bottom? Because if I'm having
trouble with a radio, all the connections to the radio are right there in
plain sight for troubleshooting.

I do not claim inventor rights to the terminal strip idea. I got it from
working on Baby Boeings. That is how Boeing makes connections. I do claim
inventor rights to the intermediate "Karmic Connector" idea. (Karmic is
what my editor at Kitplanes named it ... it stands for "Kitplanes Aircraft
Radio Middle Intermediate Connector" or some other hogwash like that.

As to your friendly local A&P, nobody ever said that they need to be looking
over your shoulder every step of the way. So long as you go in with a plan
that they can see, and that they can observe, and once you earn their trust,
you go in with the plan and they inspect the final product weeks or months
later.

Some tips: Get yourself a Mouser print catalog by calling them up and
asking for one. We dye the connectors to color code them for male and
female pins -- nylon will dye red, black, green, yellow, blue ... in Rit
fabric dye at room temperature in a couple of days, or in hot water in a
couple of minutes. Use crimp terminals on all the wires at the terminal
blocks. A plain old ten dollar crimp tool can make every bit as good a
connection as the $150 ratchet crimp tool. When you put the male and female
pins on the wires for the nylon connectors, crimp AND solder them. Get a
shareware schematic drawing program for your wiring diagrams -- your
mechanic will be impressed.

Last ... you are wondering what second radio to put in. While you are
wondering, I have a perfectly good Com-11 that is gathering dust on the
shelf. You are welcome to borrow it until you decide, but a decent older
Narking radio on ebay is not a bad deal.

Finally, if you get REAL serious about this stuff and understand that I
won't be available to answer questions right away, and as I understand it
you live in Georgetown about 20 miles south of me, I'll take on the
inspection job IF you report blow-by-blow progress to this newsgroup. I'll
even loan you the schematic drawing program with a couple of samples from
the 182 files. It would be nice if we could figure out how to ferry the
airplane up to Grass Valley for the inspections, then you fly it home with
the signoff (or a list of squawks to clean up).

No matter WHOSE audio panel you use, or WHOSE radio you use, it will be
absolutely mandatory for you to find a pinout of the connector. A good
starting place is Bob Nuckoll's page at www.aeroelectric.com .

Interested?

Jim

(Jav, ya wanna chime in here?)


"three-eight-hotel" wrote in message
oups.com...

Thanks, so far, for the responses... I'm not ignoring them, just
digesting them... ;-)

I'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty, but am thinking about the
implications and the logistics of going down that road. Evening and
weekends are really the only times I would be able to work on it, and I
don't have any friends that are A&P's or IA's. My mechanic and another
mechanic I know would not likely be excited to help me on evenings or
weekends, just so I can save money.

("RST Engineering" wrote)
It would be nice if we could figure out how to ferry the airplane up to
Grass Valley for the inspections, then you fly it home with the signoff
(or a list of squawks to clean up).


Nice write-up Jim. I've saved it to my FLYING folder. Some day I need to
sub-divide that FLYING folder - it's getting full.

This is where I'm a horrible, horrible person.
I suggest - from 1,280.5 nm away...

In the none too distant futu
Mark things INOP.
Fly plane 20 miles north, up to Grass Valley (GOO!!!)

.... just a minute, I need to clear my eyes and catch my breath. GOO? Ok. I'm
goo-d to go. Oops, no I'm not. Hehehehehe. Ahhhhh ...[sigh] ..."whew!"
Anyway.

Plane will be waiting for person who will be doing the inspection.
Get inspected. Plane, too.
[Review squawk list, if any]
Get sign-off.
Fly home.
Do not make eye contact and do not speak to anyone at your local field.
Return home. Shower.

Am I bad?


Montblack

Funny!

There just so happens to be a campground at the Georgetown airport, and
I believe they have a shower??? I know for a fact that they have
decent restrooms, so I could at least wash up a little! :-)

Cheers!
Todd

Montblack wrote:

This is where I'm a horrible, horrible person.
I suggest - from 1,280.5 nm away...

Is that direct or via airways? Sorry, too lazy to pull up the flight
planner.

Am I bad?

You really need to ask? :-)


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

("Jack Allison" wrote)
I suggest - from 1,280.5 nm away...

Is that direct or via airways? Sorry, too lazy to pull up the flight
planner.

AirNav: ANE to GOO 1,278.5 nm
(I couldn't recall the other CA. airport, 20 miles away)


Montblack .....plug, plug, plug
I'll be there all day & night, both Sat & Sun ...(+ Fri + Mon g)

Fly-In... Drive In!
http://www.eaachapter237.org/
Pancake Breakfast ....(7am-Noon)
AND Lunch .................(Noon-4pm)

Saturday & Sunday
May 20th & 21st
7:00am - 4:00pm

Hangar Dance 8pm - midnight (Sat)

Anoka County Airport (ANE)
Blaine, Minnesota
10 miles north of Downtown Minneapolis
18 miles north of MSP airport. (@ 12 O'Clock)

http://www.eaachapter237.org/pdffiles/Flyer%2006-B-Wed-cs%20color.pdf
PDF Event Flyer

6th Annual Evening Hangar Dance [Golden Wings Museum]

Featuring the sights & sounds of the 1940’s swing band - "Dave Andrew’s Big
Band"

The doors open at 7pm – music 8pm to Midnight.
$10 Adults
$6 teens ages 13-17
12 & under FREE.

Come in your best period dress! Dance will be held at Golden Wings Museum.

The FLY-IN event will be held at no cost to the public – but asking for a
parking donation

More information and updates can be found at:
www.eaachapter237.org
www.discoveraviationdays.org
www.americanwings.org

Montblack wrote:
Is that direct or via airways? Sorry, too lazy to pull up the flight
planner.


AirNav: ANE to GOO 1,278.5 nm
(I couldn't recall the other CA. airport, 20 miles away)

AOPA flight planner, great circle route: 1279 nm. Victor airways: 1314
nm. The software didn't recognize KGOO so had to go with O17


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Finally, if you get REAL serious about this stuff and understand that I
won't be available to answer questions right away, and as I understand it
you live in Georgetown about 20 miles south of me, I'll take on the
inspection job IF you report blow-by-blow progress to this newsgroup. I'll
even loan you the schematic drawing program with a couple of samples from
the 182 files. It would be nice if we could figure out how to ferry the
airplane up to Grass Valley for the inspections, then you fly it home with
the signoff (or a list of squawks to clean up).

No matter WHOSE audio panel you use, or WHOSE radio you use, it will be
absolutely mandatory for you to find a pinout of the connector. A good
starting place is Bob Nuckoll's page at www.aeroelectric.com .

Interested?

Yes!

BTW - I have a Cessna (360 I think) NAV/COM that my instructor gave me,
but was putting it off to stop the bleeding in other areas first, and
for fear of throwing in new money to install old parts. I have two
operational NAV's in the plane already, so I'm feeling pretty good
about that. (Shoot... If I didn't need to talk to anybody, my IFR
situation is pretty darn good, with the exception of lacking a DME)

How would you recommed we kick this project off? I can fly up to the
GOO and we can chat??? We can discuss a plan, and Montblack's ferrying
suggestion... ;-)

Thanks very much for the offer! I would really like to learn more
about my plane, and this would be a great opportunity!

Best Regards,
Todd

OK, this upcoming week is finals week and I'm solid booked except for
Wednesday. If you want to come up on Wednesday and I can show you what I'd
do if I were you, that would work for me. I can squeeze a couple of hours
out this weekend also, if you prefer. I'll let you poke about the aircraft
and I'll also have a CDROM with the schematic drawing computer program on it
for you. It isn't too hard to learn, although it will take you some time.
I'll clean up some of the stuff and start an "avionics" folder; I just know
where everything is and I've been sort of sloppy in getting it properly
documented.

Jim


Yes!

BTW - I have a Cessna (360 I think) NAV/COM that my instructor gave me,
but was putting it off to stop the bleeding in other areas first, and
for fear of throwing in new money to install old parts. I have two
operational NAV's in the plane already, so I'm feeling pretty good
about that. (Shoot... If I didn't need to talk to anybody, my IFR
situation is pretty darn good, with the exception of lacking a DME)

How would you recommed we kick this project off? I can fly up to the
GOO and we can chat??? We can discuss a plan, and Montblack's ferrying
suggestion... ;-)

Thanks very much for the offer! I would really like to learn more
about my plane, and this would be a great opportunity!

Best Regards,
Todd

The wife is going to be out of town, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, so
I'll be running around, chasing our 3 and 7 year olds on those days...
;-) I have a funeral to attend on Saturday, but could probably get
there at some point on the weekend, but you should just focus on what
you need to do for finals and we can look at next weekend or some time
during the week after that.

The aircraft is a 1976 Cessna 172M. It's in really good condition,
other than the annoying little radio and voltage light issues I've had
lately! :-(

The ARC radio was working in my instructors plane, but she had it
removed to replace it with a TKM Cessna replacement. (That doesn't
mean it works now though). I'll research the link you provided and
look around to see if I can find a pinout of the radio.

Let me know your thoughts, and I'll fly up there when it's convenient
for you.

Thanks,
Todd