Question for controllers

In your controller training, are situations addressed concerning aircraft
which request priority but do not declare an emergency? Is there any
guidance in the Controllers' Handbook?

D.

http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/ATC/INDEX.HTM

to answer the last part of your question.

Bob Gardner

"Capt.Doug" wrote in message
...
In your controller training, are situations addressed concerning aircraft
which request priority but do not declare an emergency? Is there any
guidance in the Controllers' Handbook?

D.

In your controller training, are situations
addressed concerning aircraft
which request priority but do not declare an
emergency? Is there any
guidance in the Controllers' Handbook?

The document says (very roughly) if in
doubt handle as emergnecy even if not
declared by aircrew.

This reminds me of a time when I was
a dual Pilot Under Instruction.

I was flying the aeroplane (almost
ready for solo) when (as we later
found out) a drive gear to one of the
magnetos lost some teeth.

We were 500' AGL climbing out from takeoff.

The engine immediately lost a lot of power
and sounded very bad. The instructor took over
control and turned 180 degrees and made
a downwind landing. The engine did not get worse.
IIRC we were able to maintain altitude more or less.

I was surprised that he did not declare an emergency
and only requested clearance to land on the reciprocal
runway. The tower said nothing either but as we approached
I could see that the fire crews were out.

I did not pursue my flying and so have not really
much more experience that I had then but
I still feel that not declaring an emergency was
not the right thing to do.

He was however a military instructor which I
assume indicates quite a bit of flying experience.

He did, of course, take the opportunity to
demonstrate and talk through the issues
and techniques of downwind landing which
I had not yet covered!

The engine lost power since the faulty
mag was still firing quite a lot but not at
the right time. Given more altitude various
mag switch fiddling would have presumably
restored power.

Anyway, the point is that the UK controllers
behaved as described in the document
referred to in the previous post and
called out the crash crew even though no
emergency had been declared.

So who files out the paper work later?

I ask because I once arrived at a major U.S. West Coast airport, and
upon extending the landing gear, had no light. I was left base at the time,
so I asked for a "right 270" to do a quick troubleshoot. Sure enough, the
bulb was bad. After landing I was followed by the equipment, and when I
stopped, the crash rescue guys wanted to know the "nature of my emergency".
I told them I had no emergency, and they left. It took two months of talking
to FAA folks to convince them there was no emergency in the first place.

Al


wrote in message
oups.com...
In your controller training, are situations
addressed concerning aircraft
which request priority but do not declare an
emergency? Is there any
guidance in the Controllers' Handbook?

The document says (very roughly) if in
doubt handle as emergnecy even if not
declared by aircrew.

This reminds me of a time when I was
a dual Pilot Under Instruction.

I was flying the aeroplane (almost
ready for solo) when (as we later
found out) a drive gear to one of the
magnetos lost some teeth.

We were 500' AGL climbing out from takeoff.

The engine immediately lost a lot of power
and sounded very bad. The instructor took over
control and turned 180 degrees and made
a downwind landing. The engine did not get worse.
IIRC we were able to maintain altitude more or less.

I was surprised that he did not declare an emergency
and only requested clearance to land on the reciprocal
runway. The tower said nothing either but as we approached
I could see that the fire crews were out.

I did not pursue my flying and so have not really
much more experience that I had then but
I still feel that not declaring an emergency was
not the right thing to do.

He was however a military instructor which I
assume indicates quite a bit of flying experience.

He did, of course, take the opportunity to
demonstrate and talk through the issues
and techniques of downwind landing which
I had not yet covered!

The engine lost power since the faulty
mag was still firing quite a lot but not at
the right time. Given more altitude various
mag switch fiddling would have presumably
restored power.

Anyway, the point is that the UK controllers
behaved as described in the document
referred to in the previous post and
called out the crash crew even though no
emergency had been declared.

The rule does not require the pilot to say the "magic words"
to have an emergency, nor does it mean that if the words are
not spoken an emergency does not exist. The rules also
require a report IF traffic priority is given. The tower
saw that you were doing something out of the ordinary. They
may have extended another airplane [perhaps an airliner] and
if the airline asked why their fuel bill was $1,000 higher
and 10 minutes late, the tower needs your statement, really
just a N-number, name to CYA.

If you mentally declare an emergency to yourself, you can do
what ever is needed to solve the problem, including
violations of airspace, minimums or clearance. For
instance, you're solid IFR/IMC and have a total electrical
failure which is not covered by any regulation except
pilot's emergency authority. You can shout at your dead
radio, until you get on the ground somewhere nobody will
know the nature of your emergency. Your navigation becomes
dead reckoning to the nearest area of known VMC.

Controllers are there to help, but unless you say emergency
they're not obligated to give you priority handling. There
is no investigation, no third degree or rubber hose, declare
the emergency, get on the ground safely, tell them your name
and thanks.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Al" wrote in message
...
| So who files out the paper work later?
|
| I ask because I once arrived at a major U.S. West Coast
airport, and
| upon extending the landing gear, had no light. I was left
base at the time,
| so I asked for a "right 270" to do a quick troubleshoot.
Sure enough, the
| bulb was bad. After landing I was followed by the
equipment, and when I
| stopped, the crash rescue guys wanted to know the "nature
of my emergency".
| I told them I had no emergency, and they left. It took two
months of talking
| to FAA folks to convince them there was no emergency in
the first place.
|
| Al
|
|
| wrote in message
|
oups.com...
| In your controller training, are situations
| addressed concerning aircraft
| which request priority but do not declare an
| emergency? Is there any
| guidance in the Controllers' Handbook?
|
| The document says (very roughly) if in
| doubt handle as emergnecy even if not
| declared by aircrew.
|
| This reminds me of a time when I was
| a dual Pilot Under Instruction.
|
| I was flying the aeroplane (almost
| ready for solo) when (as we later
| found out) a drive gear to one of the
| magnetos lost some teeth.
|
| We were 500' AGL climbing out from takeoff.
|
| The engine immediately lost a lot of power
| and sounded very bad. The instructor took over
| control and turned 180 degrees and made
| a downwind landing. The engine did not get worse.
| IIRC we were able to maintain altitude more or less.
|
| I was surprised that he did not declare an emergency
| and only requested clearance to land on the reciprocal
| runway. The tower said nothing either but as we
approached
| I could see that the fire crews were out.
|
| I did not pursue my flying and so have not really
| much more experience that I had then but
| I still feel that not declaring an emergency was
| not the right thing to do.
|
| He was however a military instructor which I
| assume indicates quite a bit of flying experience.
|
| He did, of course, take the opportunity to
| demonstrate and talk through the issues
| and techniques of downwind landing which
| I had not yet covered!
|
| The engine lost power since the faulty
| mag was still firing quite a lot but not at
| the right time. Given more altitude various
| mag switch fiddling would have presumably
| restored power.
|
| Anyway, the point is that the UK controllers
| behaved as described in the document
| referred to in the previous post and
| called out the crash crew even though no
| emergency had been declared.
|
|
|

I was surprised that he did not declare an emergency
and only requested clearance to land on the reciprocal
runway. The tower said nothing either but as we approached
I could see that the fire crews were out.

Some times, the controller knows when to not ask questions or offer advice..
just watch, keep everyone else out of the way.. and pick up the phone to
alert the fire crew.

BT

Jim Macklin wrote:
The rule does not require the pilot to say the "magic words"
to have an emergency, nor does it mean that if the words are
not spoken an emergency does not exist. The rules also
require a report IF traffic priority is given. The tower
saw that you were doing something out of the ordinary. They
may have extended another airplane [perhaps an airliner] and
if the airline asked why their fuel bill was $1,000 higher
and 10 minutes late, the tower needs your statement, really
just a N-number, name to CYA.

You're just makin' this **** up. Nowhere does it spell out that if you
do something "unusual" does that then require a report. In the
situation where the gear light failed you ask to have a little
manuvering space to check it out. We give you that and you tell us it
was the bulb. You get the equipment as a matter of course. Whether you
think it is an emergency or not is irrelavant, we do so therefore it is
an emergency. You land safely and there are two lines on the daily log.
Fiorst line states that N12345 has gear difficulty and that the trucks
were rolled. Second line states you landed safely. That's it and the
end of it. That log, like all daily logs, gets kept for a year. They
are not forwarded on to anybody. You will not be asked for a report.
If there is an incident or accident you may be called by the tower for
some information. We had one of the local C310's that is used by a 135
air taxi outfit to deliver bank checks everyday fold up its right main
three weeks ago on landing. Gear ups are by definition an incident and
not an accident. Normally the airport and FBO can get a gear up off the
runway pretty quickly however this time the owner of the plane demanded
that they lift up the plane using two cranes, like you're supposed to to
prevent further damage. It took an extra half hour to locate so the
plane tied up our main runway for over an hour. Many airliners, air
taxi's and biz jets in holding while all of this going on. We never
talked to the pilot of the 310 after the gear up, no need to. The fire
truck guys have their own paperwork but that has nothing to do with the FAA.

"Newps" wrote in message
...


Jim Macklin wrote:
The rule does not require the pilot to say the "magic words" to have an
emergency, nor does it mean that if the words are not spoken an emergency
does not exist. The rules also require a report IF traffic priority is
given. The tower saw that you were doing something out of the ordinary.
They may have extended another airplane [perhaps an airliner] and if the
airline asked why their fuel bill was $1,000 higher and 10 minutes late,
the tower needs your statement, really just a N-number, name to CYA.

You're just makin' this **** up. Nowhere does it spell out that if you do
something "unusual" does that then require a report. In the situation
where the gear light failed you ask to have a little manuvering space to
check it out. We give you that and you tell us it was the bulb. You get
the equipment as a matter of course. Whether you think it is an emergency
or not is irrelavant, we do so therefore it is an emergency. You land
safely and there are two lines on the daily log.

Let's see: He says virtually the same thing and he's "making **** up"?

Read it again and, this time, don't just skim it.

Fiorst line states that N12345 has gear difficulty and that the trucks
were rolled. Second line states you landed safely. That's it and the end
of it. That log, like all daily logs, gets kept for a year. They are not
forwarded on to anybody. You will not be asked for a report. If there is
an incident or accident you may be called by the tower for some
information. We had one of the local C310's that is used by a 135 air
taxi outfit to deliver bank checks everyday fold up its right main three
weeks ago on landing. Gear ups are by definition an incident and not an
accident. Normally the airport and FBO can get a gear up off the runway
pretty quickly however this time the owner of the plane demanded that they
lift up the plane using two cranes, like you're supposed to to prevent
further damage. It took an extra half hour to locate so the plane tied up
our main runway for over an hour. Many airliners, air taxi's and biz jets
in holding while all of this going on. We never talked to the pilot of
the 310 after the gear up, no need to. The fire truck guys have their own
paperwork but that has nothing to do with the FAA.

What is it about the controllers in here that they're ****house lawyers and
have their egos shoved so far up their ass?

Matt Barrow wrote:
"Newps" wrote in message
...


The rules also require a report IF traffic priority is
given.

No such rule.


The tower saw that you were doing something out of the ordinary.

Every controller sees this everyday. If a report were required
everytime somebody does something out of the ordinary there wouldn't be
any trees left.


They may have extended another airplane [perhaps an airliner] and if the
airline asked why their fuel bill was $1,000 higher and 10 minutes late,

They wouldn't and if they did we'd blow them off.



the tower needs your statement, really just a N-number, name to CYA.

We don't need to CYA. We're gonna get sued anyways.


What is it about the controllers in here that they're ****house lawyers and
have their egos shoved so far up their ass?

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

Why don't you read posts before clipping....or at least learn to clip
correctly.


"Newps" wrote in message
...


Matt Barrow wrote:
"Newps" wrote in message
...


The rules also require a report IF traffic priority is
given.

No such rule.


The tower saw that you were doing something out of the ordinary.

Every controller sees this everyday. If a report were required everytime
somebody does something out of the ordinary there wouldn't be any trees
left.


They may have extended another airplane [perhaps an airliner] and if the
airline asked why their fuel bill was $1,000 higher and 10 minutes late,

They wouldn't and if they did we'd blow them off.



the tower needs your statement, really just a N-number, name to CYA.

We don't need to CYA. We're gonna get sued anyways.


What is it about the controllers in here that they're ****house lawyers
and have their egos shoved so far up their ass?

Would you like some cheese with that whine?