Get Rid Of Warbirds At Oshkosh

"dougdrivr" wrote

You also need to consider that this was on a very narrow taxiway (for a
TBM) and the TBM has no tail wheel steering. Deep "S" turns would require
lots of brake and ,if the tail wheel got off on the grass, alot of power
to
straighten out and the chance of blowing someone over behind you. Not
making
excuses, just attempting to understand what the pilot of the TBM was up
against, especially if he had the mindset that the high wing that exited
into the grass was the airplane he was sequenced behind and he needed to
close up on the preceeding aircraft. It's still his responsibility to
clear
the area in front of his aircraft but I can see how easily he fell into
this
trap.

I'll say again; I never saw the taxiway width being a problem for any other
warbird, while I was working there. 35 feet is plenty wide for a good
S-turn.
--
Jim in NC

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 02:08:45 -0400, "Morgans" wrote:

"dougdrivr" wrote

You also need to consider that this was on a very narrow taxiway (for a
TBM) and the TBM has no tail wheel steering. Deep "S" turns would require
lots of brake and ,if the tail wheel got off on the grass, alot of power
to straighten out and the chance of blowing someone over behind you....
[Snip]

I'll say again; I never saw the taxiway width being a problem for any other
warbird, while I was working there. 35 feet is plenty wide for a good
S-turn.

Yes, but: Most of the other warbirds you saw have tailwheel steering. Without
it, directional control is pretty indirect, and S-turning isn't just a matter of
a casual push on a pedal. Couple that with the realization that every S-turn
wears a brake pad, and that pads for TBMs are probably neither common nor cheap.
Heck, they're $200 a pair just for my Fly Baby....

Couple with a big radial cowling, the pilot probably doesn't truly get a good
view forward until the longitudinal axis takes a significant offset from the
centerline. With that, you're heading towards the taxiway lights that much
quicker, and you're going to want to turn back early enough so the wheels don't
leave the pavement.

Like Dougdrivr said, it certainly was the pilot's responsibility to clear the
taxiway ahead. But I can sympathize with the problems he faced.

Ron Wanttaja

Since it is obvious to the most casual observer, a plane such as a TBM
has such poor forward visibility and such a tough time with ground
manuevering, wouldn't it have been easier to have a guy on a scooter
escort it as a second set of remotely mounted eyes?

Scott


Ron Wanttaja wrote:


Couple with a big radial cowling, the pilot probably doesn't truly get a good
view forward until the longitudinal axis takes a significant offset from the
centerline. With that, you're heading towards the taxiway lights that much
quicker, and you're going to want to turn back early enough so the wheels don't
leave the pavement.

Like Dougdrivr said, it certainly was the pilot's responsibility to clear the
taxiway ahead. But I can sympathize with the problems he faced.

Ron Wanttaja

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:01:33 +0000, Scott
wrote:
Since it is obvious to the most casual observer, a plane such as a TBM
has such poor forward visibility and such a tough time with ground
manuevering, wouldn't it have been easier to have a guy on a scooter
escort it as a second set of remotely mounted eyes?

That has already been discussed... Look back through the thread for
the last few days...

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote

Yes, but: Most of the other warbirds you saw have tailwheel steering.
Without
it, directional control is pretty indirect, and S-turning isn't just a
matter of
a casual push on a pedal. Couple that with the realization that every
S-turn
wears a brake pad, and that pads for TBMs are probably neither common nor
cheap.
Heck, they're $200 a pair just for my Fly Baby...

Ron, you know better than that. Every type of warbird at OSH has taxied
past me. They all managed. Plus, the cost of brakes is part of being at
OSH. If you can not taxi safely cause it costs too much, stay home.

Couple with a big radial cowling, the pilot probably doesn't truly get a
good
view forward until the longitudinal axis takes a significant offset from
the
centerline. With that, you're heading towards the taxiway lights that
much
quicker, and you're going to want to turn back early enough so the wheels
don't
leave the pavement.

There are no taxiway lights on that particular taxiway. It is not a
normally used taxiway.

Like Dougdrivr said, it certainly was the pilot's responsibility to clear
the
taxiway ahead. But I can sympathize with the problems he faced.

Problems that can be overcome, since everyone else managed.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
"Ron Wanttaja" wrote

Yes, but: Most of the other warbirds you saw have tailwheel steering.


Ron, you know better than that. Every type of warbird at OSH has taxied
past me. They all managed. Plus, the cost of brakes is part of being at
OSH. If you can not taxi safely cause it costs too much, stay home.


And all of it is neither here nor there. I used to drive a big truck,
and 18-wheeler as moving van. 18 wheels down through residential
neighborhoods. The number one rule was "If you don't know you're clear,
you don't move." Period. No guessing. No thinking. No hoping and no
wishing. Either you can see you're clear through mirrors or sticking
your head out the window, or you have your partner get out and sight for
you. If you don't have a partner, you set the parking brake and take a
walk around the truck.

The pilot knew the airplane had visibility issues, and he knew he would
be in crowded environment. It's his responsibility, plain and clear.
Oshkosh organizers are fully culpable for not requiring that he observe
the simplest safety rule. This isn't something that's limited to
aviation. Anytime you have large equipment moving in a crowded
environment, you will see extra precautions taken. Anytime a forklift
is moving something at the HomeDepot, they'll post two guards to keep
people back. It's my opinion that the Oshkosh organizers should be held
responsible for criminal negligence, and Uncle Tom should be whipped at
high noon for the crude and audacious remark that "this will not detract
from the success of the convention."

Not the fact that this was allowed to occur, but it was allowed to
happen in such a glaringly stupid fashion, without the first modicum of
the normal safeguards that you would see at any large convention is a
serious black eye on Warbirds, GA aircraft, the EAA, and especially
Oshkosh. Whether it is true or no, this just screams to the world that
we're all a bunch of reckless yahoos. Most of us aren't, but just try
to convince Joe Public of that when the biggest convention of GA
aircraft in the world doesn't practice safety measures that would be
strictly enforced at the county fair.

----
This is by far the hardest lesson about freedom. It goes against
instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make
mistakes. We want to help them, which means control them and their
decisions, but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)."