Any traffic please advise

"Viperdoc" wrote:

Have to agree that "looking" in response to a traffic call is reasonable.
Saying "roger" makes it unclear as to whether you actually have the
traffic in sight.

Both responses are incorrect.

"Traffic in sight (the correct response) makes it very clear that you have
the traffic in sight.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

"Jonathan Goodish" wrote:

I agree, except for "looking." When ATC calls traffic, you have three
choices in my experience: Negative contact, traffic in sight (not
"contact"), or looking. If ATC calls traffic, responding with "negative
contact" before I have a chance to look is counterproductive.

Counterproductive to what?

No response while I look is also counterproductive, because the
controller
has no idea whether I heard the traffic call or not. Responding with
"looking" acknowledges the transmission and tells the controller than I
don't have the traffic but I'm not blowing it off.

Why would the controller presume you are "blowing it off?"

After I've had a
chance to actually scan for the traffic, I will respond with either
"negative contact" or "traffic in sight."

Then "looking" was an extra, unnecessary transmission.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

I usually get dumped off at 5 miles. This happens when I am flying IFR or
VFR and receiving flight following. I fly between two class Cs into a small
uncontrolled field, so I get flight following.

I can make a position announcement, but it is also recommended that I say my
intentions. I don't know my intensions until I know what runway is active.

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...

Jose wrote:
It can be very useful when the freq is quiet. Often times you'll find
that if students are in the pattern they only talk when turning. If a
student pilot is on downwind, if you don't ask, you probably won't hear
him on the radio until he's turning base, possibly in front of you.

You should be listening on the frequency for long enough that such
students have made several such turns before you are close enough for
that to matter. Make your own position report. That should be enough
of a prompt for pilots in the area to respond if warranted.

That's hard for IFR pilots who often get dumped onto airports as close
as 10 miles out. In my plane I'm usually approaching at 170 knots
ground speed. Not much time to wait for the next transmission. If the
freq is busy I agree with you, however, if the freq is dead it can be
helpful.

-Robert

"Bela P. Havasreti" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 15:05:57 GMT, Kris Kortokrax
wrote:


I try to come prepared arriving @ my destination airport and I'll
tend to know in advance (with reasonable accuracy) which way the
traffic pattern will be. I like to *listen* (miles away) on CTAF to
monitor activities at my destination airport before I get there. If
there is no activity, I'll try to dial up an AWOS or ATIS at a nearby
airport and see what the winds are there (chances are if it's
reasonably close by, the winds will be the same).

What if your destination has no AWOS or ATIS, and the winds are light and
variable?
I fly into a small airport that has wind shifts on a regular basis, and does
not correlate well with the winds from the class C 30 miles away.
It is better to ask when the winds are not obvious. It is a lot safer than
flying over the active runway and looking at the wind sock.

unicate wrote:
"Looking" is another one that is used frequently here at our Class D
airport. Why is that wrong?

"Dan Luke" wrote:
It is not proper phraseology and is nearly as useless as "with you."

"With you", if the person doesn't have any info on you or know your
intentions, is useless. "Looking," on the other hand, is not useless ...
it conveys EXACTLY what you are doing.

The correct responses are "negative contact" or "traffic in sight."

It indicates that the person heard the
advisory and is looking but doesn't yet
see the traffic, it's clear, concise, and brief. ?

And wrong.

Pilots flying in and out of 3 busy Class D airports here use it
frequently, and the ATCs are appreciative and don't spank people for
using it. I'm not going to argue right or wrong over a single, specific
word like "looking". It only has one meaning.

I will admit of having used the "traffic in the area please advice".
However, I think I have a reasonable justification. When ATC drops you
off 5 miles from an uncontrolled airport, you are flying a fast
airplane, you don't have a lot of time to figure out the other
airplanes in the traffic pattern. Someone could have announced a
base-to-final turn couple of seconds before you tuned in. If you
simply announce "citation xxx 5 mile final" the guy in front of you
will assume that you heard his call and may not bother to repeat his
call. If you say "traffic in the pattern please advice", that is a
clear indication that you just tuned in and you did not hear his
previous call. On the other hand, if you did hear his call, you would
say "5 mile final, number two". So, there is a time and place where
"traffic in the area please advice" has some use.



Kris Kortokrax wrote:
Just received the following from the FAA Designee Notification system.
Checked out the AIM on the FAA web site and the wording is included.

Kris

--------------------------------------------------------


The inane practice of using the phrase "any traffic please advise" has
become so wide spread that the FAA has finally included a "do not do
this" in the latest version of the AIM. You will find the following
quote at paragraph 4-1-9 G 1 in the latest version of the AIM:

Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or
intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF.
This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on
the airport. The self-announce procedure should also be used if a pilot
is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots
stating, "Traffic in the area, please advise" is not a recognized
Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used
under any condition.

If you do not have a current copy of the AIM, you can reference one
online at:

http://www.faa.gov/ATPUBS/AIM/

Bob Linenweber, ASI
314-890-4864


OPS DESIGNEE NOTIFICATION SYSTEM

You wait till 5 miles to start listening to unicom in a Citation that
is going fast, by your admission? Does it have 2 coms? Does it have a
two man crew? I am listening to Unicom way before ATC lets me go, and
that is in a 100 KT spamcan and single pilot. It's not too hard to
monitor a second freq. No, that innane traffic call is not justified.



On 25 Aug 2006 19:09:14 -0700, "Andrew Sarangan"
wrote:

I will admit of having used the "traffic in the area please advice".
However, I think I have a reasonable justification. When ATC drops you
off 5 miles from an uncontrolled airport, you are flying a fast
airplane, you don't have a lot of time to figure out the other
airplanes in the traffic pattern. Someone could have announced a
base-to-final turn couple of seconds before you tuned in. If you
simply announce "citation xxx 5 mile final" the guy in front of you
will assume that you heard his call and may not bother to repeat his
call. If you say "traffic in the pattern please advice", that is a
clear indication that you just tuned in and you did not hear his
previous call. On the other hand, if you did hear his call, you would
say "5 mile final, number two". So, there is a time and place where
"traffic in the area please advice" has some use.



Kris Kortokrax wrote:
Just received the following from the FAA Designee Notification system.
Checked out the AIM on the FAA web site and the wording is included.

Kris

--------------------------------------------------------


The inane practice of using the phrase "any traffic please advise" has
become so wide spread that the FAA has finally included a "do not do
this" in the latest version of the AIM. You will find the following
quote at paragraph 4-1-9 G 1 in the latest version of the AIM:

Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or
intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF.
This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on
the airport. The self-announce procedure should also be used if a pilot
is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots
stating, "Traffic in the area, please advise" is not a recognized
Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used
under any condition.

If you do not have a current copy of the AIM, you can reference one
online at:

http://www.faa.gov/ATPUBS/AIM/

Bob Linenweber, ASI
314-890-4864


OPS DESIGNEE NOTIFICATION SYSTEM

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
oups.com...

I will admit of having used the "traffic in the area please advice".
However, I think I have a reasonable justification. When ATC drops you
off 5 miles from an uncontrolled airport, you are flying a fast
airplane, you don't have a lot of time to figure out the other
airplanes in the traffic pattern.


Why not? What prevented you from monitoring CTAF prior to being "dropped"
by ATC?

I want to complain about those that key the mike and start blabbing
before my squelch opens. Many times they don't announce the airport at
the end of their transmissions either so I can only speculate where
they are.

I used "anybody on the frequency?" for a quiet radio, but maybe I'll
quit after this.

A good topic to air out.

Larry Dighera wrote:

I agree with your reasoning, but regulations only instruct the
controller to provide the VFR traffic advisory; they don't require the
controller to be concerned if you see the traffic or not. That said,
it has been my experience, that a controller will make an effort to
continue advising the traffic's position (if it is a factor) until the
pilot reports "in sight."

Everything discussed up to your post applies to IFR traffic advisories as
well. However, in the case of IFR traffic advisories, additional
instructions are most likely forthcoming the moment the pilot advises
traffic in sight, such as "cleared for the visual approach," "maintain
visual separation with the traffic, climb and maintain xxx," etc.

--
Peter