First Glider Purchase

brian d wrote:
Hello Pundits,

Now that I am retired I have decided to live a little before its to
late....no more I will do X Y and Z NEXT YEAR. I first went solo in a
glider at the Midland Gliding club in 1976 and then solo on power the
same year. Power flying quickly lost its attraction and I didnt
complete my licence but my first love was always gliding .
I have not done any gliding for a number of years and intend buying my
first glider in the next few months....the question is which one....and
whether or not to go for outright ownership or a syndicate machine.

My shortlist is now as follows: Max budget £35K

FIRST CHOICE ASW22 I am told that the best version is the BL. I
would welcome any other opinions as to whether this is true or not !!
all though the thought of a field landing in something with this much
span is off putting £10k for a fifth share in a syndicate that only
flew 80 hours last year is attractive.
I should add that I personally DONT WANT TO FLY AT WEEKENDS. so I am
quite marketable myself.
I of course accept that I will not be a good enough pilot to jump
straight into something with an LD of 60/1 and a 22/24 Metre span after
a weekends refresher at Church Stretton.
The plan would be to do an intensive 2 week tailor made course in the
UK ( SUGGESTIONS AS TO EXACTLY WHERE ARE ALSO WELCOME) and then have
six weeks.... or more if advised... at somewhere like Fuentemilanos in
Spain where i understand I might get 30 hours flying EVERY week if I
book in May/June next year !!
It might be that even this level of intensive instruction and practice
wouldnt be enough and I hope that at 58 years old I2 am mature enough
to get into an ASW22 when I am ready as opposed to when I am the only
one that thinks I am ready.

SECOND CHOICE

A quarter share in a STEMME ST V10

Probably the easiest option with all the advantages of long distance "
go look and see" soaring, self launching independance, virtually
guaranteed SAFE engine restarts and near certain back to base return
trips home at the end of a day thats as long as you want it to
be...only disadvantage iffy ground handling.

THIRD CHOICE

A LAK 12

For outright ownership...lots of bang for the buck ! cheap to buy, very
strong a great long distance tourer although not a competition machine ;
the main disadvantage appears to be that the single piece wings weigh in
at 240llbs each and the trailer is as long as a bowling alley.
Despite being cheap the preparation to fly it would follow the same
plan as the ASW22, two weeks in England and 4/6 weeks in Spain.

FOURTH CHOICE

ASW 20L
For outright ownership.
this would keep everything nice and simple....which is probably why its
the last on my list.

Well you will all be pleased to know that I have come to the end of my
first post...any helpfull opinions would be much appreciated.

Regards brian d




--
brian d
Assuming you have not much more experience in gliders than power, pick
a club with a Janus C or better twin. Take about a dozen instructional
flights. Then announce your plans to the CFI and see if you'll be
allowed to fly your choices at that site any time soon. Also check
with your potential insurers.

IMVHO, if you want to fly big wings, get an Open Cirrus (German, not
VTC) and enjoy yourself for 2-3 years before moving up.

If you have 500 hours P1, press on.

Frank Whiteley

Frank Whiteley wrote:
Assuming you have not much more experience in gliders than power, pick
a club with a Janus C or better twin. Take about a dozen instructional
flights. Then announce your plans to the CFI and see if you'll be
allowed to fly your choices at that site any time soon. Also check
with your potential insurers.

Good advice! I think the first and most important choice to make is the
club you decide to join. Use the BGA's website to find local clubs and
go visit them, then pick the one you feel most comfortable with and join
it. I started as an ab initio when I was 54 and did exactly that. It
worked for me.

I'd suggest that you get solo, convert to a club single seater, get your
Bronze Cross Country qualification and Silver C and then and only then
get a ride in a big wing (ASH-25 or Nimbus 3 or 4) before deciding what
to buy. I currently have 350 hours but only had my first big wing rides
this season - they are *very* different to fly. You may find you prefer
the responsiveness of a 15m glider to the more stately flying style of a
big wing.

As Frank says, talk to your CFI and the club pundits about types of
glider before making a decision: its not a good idea to pick a type that
your CFI has good reason to dislike. Ease of rigging and of making field
landings can be as important as sheer performance.

IMVHO, if you want to fly big wings, get an Open Cirrus (German, not
VTC) and enjoy yourself for 2-3 years before moving up.

....and also consider the convertible 15/16m or more recent 15/18m
gliders. They are generally easier to rig and derig than the big stuff:
at my club the 15/18 ships live in their trailers while the ASH-25s,
Nimbus 3 and DuoDiscii have T-hangars. I think there's a small hint
there....


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Originally Posted by Frank Whiteley

brian d wrote:
Hello Pundits,

Now that I am retired I have decided to live a little before its to
late....no more I will do X Y and Z NEXT YEAR. I first went solo in a
glider at the Midland Gliding club in 1976 and then solo on power the
same year. Power flying quickly lost its attraction and I didnt
complete my licence but my first love was always gliding .
I have not done any gliding for a number of years and intend buying my
first glider in the next few months....the question is which one....and
whether or not to go for outright ownership or a syndicate machine.

My shortlist is now as follows: Max budget £35K

FIRST CHOICE ASW22 I am told that the best version is the BL. I
would welcome any other opinions as to whether this is true or not !!
all though the thought of a field landing in something with this much
span is off putting £10k for a fifth share in a syndicate that only
flew 80 hours last year is attractive.
I should add that I personally DONT WANT TO FLY AT WEEKENDS. so I am
quite marketable myself.
I of course accept that I will not be a good enough pilot to jump
straight into something with an LD of 60/1 and a 22/24 Metre span after
a weekends refresher at Church Stretton.
The plan would be to do an intensive 2 week tailor made course in the
UK ( SUGGESTIONS AS TO EXACTLY WHERE ARE ALSO WELCOME) and then have
six weeks.... or more if advised... at somewhere like Fuentemilanos in
Spain where i understand I might get 30 hours flying EVERY week if I
book in May/June next year !!
It might be that even this level of intensive instruction and practice
wouldnt be enough and I hope that at 58 years old I2 am mature enough
to get into an ASW22 when I am ready as opposed to when I am the only
one that thinks I am ready.

SECOND CHOICE

A quarter share in a STEMME ST V10

Probably the easiest option with all the advantages of long distance "
go look and see" soaring, self launching independance, virtually
guaranteed SAFE engine restarts and near certain back to base return
trips home at the end of a day thats as long as you want it to
be...only disadvantage iffy ground handling.

THIRD CHOICE

A LAK 12

For outright ownership...lots of bang for the buck ! cheap to buy, very
strong a great long distance tourer although not a competition machine ;
the main disadvantage appears to be that the single piece wings weigh in
at 240llbs each and the trailer is as long as a bowling alley.
Despite being cheap the preparation to fly it would follow the same
plan as the ASW22, two weeks in England and 4/6 weeks in Spain.

FOURTH CHOICE

ASW 20L
For outright ownership.
this would keep everything nice and simple....which is probably why its
the last on my list.

Well you will all be pleased to know that I have come to the end of my
first post...any helpfull opinions would be much appreciated.

Regards brian d




--
brian d
Assuming you have not much more experience in gliders than power, pick
a club with a Janus C or better twin. Take about a dozen instructional
flights. Then announce your plans to the CFI and see if you'll be
allowed to fly your choices at that site any time soon. Also check
with your potential insurers.

IMVHO, if you want to fly big wings, get an Open Cirrus (German, not
VTC) and enjoy yourself for 2-3 years before moving up.

If you have 500 hours P1, press on.

Frank Whiteley

Help...500 HOURS !!! I had about 70 hours when I ran out of time/money ect and I didnt even manage to find the time to take my bronze Cert .
The idea of doing an intensive course in the UK plus Spain was to get the hours in next Spring
then hopefully bag at least a silver C in a Spanish climate which would give me more flights/hours in less days...I have often been dissapionted with the hours flying promised on a UK holiday course when compared with the reality of the hours actually flown.
...and then find a CFI (friendly) and say something like er well er ...ive got nearly 200 hundred hours and a Silver C "WHICH OF THESE DO YOU THINK I MIGHT BE ABLE TO FLY THIS YEAR ..."

by the way see that trailer over there....
Would you rule out a Lak 12 to fly from somewhere like the Long Mynd which has tons of room for those long landing runs on spongey soil
I will however look at the Janus do you know if there are any clubs operating one of these on a instructional course so that I could try one out ??
Thanks for the helpfull advice

Brian

brian d wrote:
Frank Whiteley Wrote:

IMVHO, if you want to fly big wings, get an Open Cirrus (German, not
VTC) and enjoy yourself for 2-3 years before moving up.

If you have 500 hours P1, press on.

Help...500 HOURS !!! I had about 70 hours when I ran out of time/money
ect and I didnt even manage to find the time to take my bronze Cert .
The idea of doing an intensive course in the UK plus Spain was to get
the hours in next Spring
then hopefully bag at least a silver C in a Spanish climate which
would give me more flights/hours in less days...I have often been
dissapionted with the hours flying promised on a UK holiday course when
compared with the reality of the hours actually flown.
..and then find a CFI (friendly) and say something like er well er
...ive got nearly 200 hundred hours and a Silver C "WHICH OF THESE DO
YOU THINK I MIGHT BE ABLE TO FLY THIS YEAR ..."

by the way see that trailer over there....
Would you rule out a Lak 12 to fly from somewhere like the Long Mynd
which has tons of room for those long landing runs on spongey soil
I will however look at the Janus do you know if there are any clubs
operating one of these on a instructional course so that I could try
one out ??


Brian,

Frank is talking about the big-wings for which you may not yet be quite
ready. In general I fear you are working too much in your head at this
point. Get a good std class ship, one that will maintain it's resale
value over the next few years, and then fly it as much as your old body
can stand.

One you've done a few hundred hours in it, you'll be ready to get off
the page and into the air with something grander. I know you don't want
to waste time, but certain things cannot be compressed, nor imagined
accurately enough to make up for being there.

No moment spent in the air is wasted, and the pilot you will be a few
years from now is not the one you saw in the mirror this morning. So,
worry less and fly more.


Jack