Which Two Place Club Ship?

wrote:
You haven't specified any financial constraints, so...
Get a Duo Discus, with a good trailer and solo assembly rig.

We have a small syndicate/club. I assemble the Duo myself
and I'm ready to fly in the time many clubs take to unpack a hangar.
Easy to fly, suitable for primary instruction through advanced XC.

Of course, you're going to spend a bit more money than
some of the other options discussed, but it will retain its
value with very low maintenance costs, and you will never
be dissatisfied with performance or suitability for transition
training. Go fly it in a contest with a more experienced
pilot if you want to learn something (our Duo is featured
in the movie "A Fine Week of Soaring" with Karl Striedieck).

Get it equipped with two parachutes, and an ILEC SN10
varior/flight computer with Garmin GPS-35.

Only issues with club member assembly/disassembly: once
I dinged the gear doors putting it into the trailer, so we bought a
spare set of gear doors so it can be easily field repaired if
it happens again.

For clubs that own a Duo, its first out of the hangar in the
AM for primary training, some XC during the mid-day, and
then back to primary training late afternoon until dusk.

This is not at all crazy or out-of-reach for a small group.
Think seriously about it !

And you can make a similar argument for the DG-1000. Plus you get
optional short tips for acro training, more effective spoilers, and full
rear seat gear operation (unless you're comparing to Duo X).

Jeremy

Same spoiler effectiveness (unless the Duo spoilers/wheelbrake
are improperly adjusted, which is common). If you're not doing
Acro, and you don't mind asking passenger to operate gear, no
difference (I always fly from back seat). Anyway, I know some
clubs are equally happy with DG-1000 as we are with our Duo !
I think DG rear seat is a tad more comfortable as well. I'll try
fly the DG one of these days...
Best Regards, Dave

Jeremy Zawodny wrote:
wrote:
You haven't specified any financial constraints, so...
Get a Duo Discus, with a good trailer and solo assembly rig.

We have a small syndicate/club. I assemble the Duo myself
and I'm ready to fly in the time many clubs take to unpack a hangar.
Easy to fly, suitable for primary instruction through advanced XC.

Of course, you're going to spend a bit more money than
some of the other options discussed, but it will retain its
value with very low maintenance costs, and you will never
be dissatisfied with performance or suitability for transition
training. Go fly it in a contest with a more experienced
pilot if you want to learn something (our Duo is featured
in the movie "A Fine Week of Soaring" with Karl Striedieck).

Get it equipped with two parachutes, and an ILEC SN10
varior/flight computer with Garmin GPS-35.

Only issues with club member assembly/disassembly: once
I dinged the gear doors putting it into the trailer, so we bought a
spare set of gear doors so it can be easily field repaired if
it happens again.

For clubs that own a Duo, its first out of the hangar in the
AM for primary training, some XC during the mid-day, and
then back to primary training late afternoon until dusk.

This is not at all crazy or out-of-reach for a small group.
Think seriously about it !

And you can make a similar argument for the DG-1000. Plus you get
optional short tips for acro training, more effective spoilers, and full
rear seat gear operation (unless you're comparing to Duo X).

Jeremy

wrote:
Same spoiler effectiveness (unless the Duo spoilers/wheelbrake
are improperly adjusted, which is common). If you're not doing
Acro, and you don't mind asking passenger to operate gear, no
difference (I always fly from back seat). Anyway, I know some
clubs are equally happy with DG-1000 as we are with our Duo !
I think DG rear seat is a tad more comfortable as well. I'll try
fly the DG one of these days...

Heh. I happen to think the back seat is the worst feature of the
DG-1000, at least in terms of comfort. :-)

But, yeah, it's worth flying both. I haven't flown a Duo X yet, but I'd
like to someday.

Jeremy

Hi,

Interesting. I was very fortunate to spent quite a few hours in the back
seat of a DG-1000 this summer and found it very comfortable - and I'm 6' 3"
tall with very long legs. I think it is a lovely glider in every way! Very
easy to fly and impressive performance. My longs legs get a bit cramped in
the front seat on long flights though.

Paul Remde

"Jeremy Zawodny" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Same spoiler effectiveness (unless the Duo spoilers/wheelbrake
are improperly adjusted, which is common). If you're not doing
Acro, and you don't mind asking passenger to operate gear, no
difference (I always fly from back seat). Anyway, I know some
clubs are equally happy with DG-1000 as we are with our Duo !
I think DG rear seat is a tad more comfortable as well. I'll try
fly the DG one of these days...

Heh. I happen to think the back seat is the worst feature of the DG-1000,
at least in terms of comfort. :-)

But, yeah, it's worth flying both. I haven't flown a Duo X yet, but I'd
like to someday.

Jeremy

You'll have seen a theme developing.... K21....K21...K21
They're still hard to beat for safety, simplicity,
ruggedness and flexibilty. If only you could spin
them!

See below for answers (London Gliding Club)

At 21:12 18 September 2006, Contestid67 wrote:
My home club is in the beginning stages of research
on the purchase of
a new/used two place glider. Rather than focus on
what you would like
to own, we want to focus on what you currently do own.

We would like to ask you a few questions;

- What two place gliders are owned by your club?

5xK21
1xK13 (largely for spinning)
1xDuo Discus (advanced XC training)
1xMotorfalke (field landing & nav training)

- What were the considerations when your purchased
those gliders?

Been operating them for over 20 years but we keep getting
a new one as we pension one off. General all-round
ability, ease of use, robustness etc.

- Which glider would you purchase again?

K21 (for the purpose)

- Do you prefer glass or aluminum for a club ship?
Why? Pros/cons?

Glass. No metal gliders suitable/available.

- Do you store the glider inside or outside? If inside
is this in a
hangar or trailer?

K21s and K13 live in hangar. Duo in trailer (less
hangar rash)

- If in a trailer have there been any issues with assembly/disasse
mblyby club members?

Occasional minor issues if people not familiar.


- Does the club supply parachutes?

Yes

- What instruments do you consider necessary beyond
altimeter, ASI,
compass, mech vario?

All club gliders have elec/adio varios and radios.
They also now have EW Microrecorder loggers (dead
easy - no need for numpties to touch anything!). Our
need of radios and loggers has to do with our unusual
proximity to Luton Airport. We're inside the TMA and
our boundaries change depending on their landing direction
so we need a high degree of control and awareness.

The Duo is great for XC but may unsuitable for general
club training. We don't usually winch it partly because
we have a limited site and people used to dropping
a K21 striaght ahead on cable-break might be 'embarrassed'
by the Duo flying into the next field. The Duo X is
much better in respect of brakes.
Haven't flown the DG1000 but it does do a lot of the
things a K21 and a Duo can do in one package.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

- John

Welcome
Rob

True -- but you can get the same qualities for a lower price by
purchasing a PW-6 -- and it spins as required. [:))

You'll have seen a theme developing.... K21....K21...K21
They're still hard to beat for safety, simplicity,
ruggedness and flexibilty. If only you could spin
them!

On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:29:49 GMT, Charles Yeates
wrote:


True -- but you can get the same qualities for a lower price by
purchasing a PW-6 -- and it spins as required. [:))

Having tried to squeeze my 6'7" into a PW-6 without success I can
testify that the PW-6 does not offer the same qualities as an
ASK-21...




Bye
Andreas

Paul Remde wrote:
Hi,

Interesting. I was very fortunate to spent quite a few hours in the back
seat of a DG-1000 this summer and found it very comfortable - and I'm 6' 3"
tall with very long legs. I think it is a lovely glider in every way! Very
easy to fly and impressive performance. My longs legs get a bit cramped in
the front seat on long flights though.

Don't get me wrong. I love our DG-1000. Our club has a 2nd one on
order. But I just wish the back seat was more comfortable.

I've done a bit of experimenting with towels and cushions, so it's a lot
better now. But there's still tweaking to be done.

Jeremy

Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:29:49 GMT, Charles Yeates


Having tried to squeeze my 6'7" into a PW-6 without success I can
testify that the PW-6 does not offer the same qualities as an
ASK-21...


Bye
Andreas


Andreas,
I'm 72" , five inches more than you, and still comfy in
PW-5.
You should try again. This time relax, don't squeeze.
Bye, bye
Richard

wrote:
Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:29:49 GMT, Charles Yeates

Having tried to squeeze my 6'7" into a PW-6 without success I can
testify that the PW-6 does not offer the same qualities as an
ASK-21...

Andreas,
I'm 72" , five inches more than you, and still comfy in
PW-5. You should try again. This time relax, don't squeeze.


Read again, Richard.

6'7" = 79" v your 72".


Jack