How much do you trim?

Robert Chambers writes:

The discussion of trim in a flight sim on a PC is academic.

Hardly. Trim does the same thing on a simulator that it does in real
life.

In an aircraft, trim is not so much a "convenience" as you seem
to think.

A lot of aircraft and pilots seem to do without it, so obviously it is
not necessary.

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On 2006-10-09, Mxsmanic wrote:
Robert Chambers writes:

The discussion of trim in a flight sim on a PC is academic.

Hardly. Trim does the same thing on a simulator that it does in real
life.

Not really. In a real aircraft, you trim out the forces you're feeling
without actually moving the control itself.

However, controls for a PC don't work like this - so you have to feed in
trim to the simulator, while gradually moving the joystick to the centre
position - because all that's providing resistance is a set of static
springs.

It would be possible to design flight controls for a PC simulator (which
are inadequate on so many levels - even the expensive ones) which work
just like trim works on a real aircraft, but it would be extremely
expensive. The other problem with PC controls is that they don't move
nearly far enough. The CH yoke for example, goes in and out (for pitch)
about 3 or 4 inches, and turns about 45 degrees in each diretion. The
yoke on a Cessna 172 has probably 18 inches of fore/aft travel and turns
through about 120 degrees in each direction. CH rudder pedals maybe
displace an inch or so, but the rudder pedals on a C172 probably
displace a good 5 or 6 inches. This means that the controls on a
simulator are _insanely_ sensitive if you want them to be able to make
full control deflections.

In an aircraft, trim is not so much a "convenience" as you seem
to think.

A lot of aircraft and pilots seem to do without it, so obviously it is
not necessary.

Name ten!

If you're doing without trim in a real aircraft, you _are_ doing it
wrong, at least for any conventional light plane right up to airliners.
Trim is absolutely essential in pitch.

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Dylan Smith writes:

This means that the controls on a
simulator are _insanely_ sensitive if you want them to be able to make
full control deflections.

And the cheaper the controls, the worse they are. I tried a cheapo
joystick today and almost dived into the ground. I don't think it
moves more than a quarter of an inch from stop to stop for control
surfaces.

Name ten!

Anyone who flies an aircraft that doesn't provide trim.

Trim is absolutely essential in pitch.

I just worry about not knowing how far away I am from neutral. I
could be applying enormous control surface deflection with trim
without necessarily being aware of it. So I might try to move a bit
further with the yoke and find that I'm already against the stop.

The other thing that worries me is distraction. Takeoffs, landings,
climbs, and approaches seem like bad times to be fiddling with trim,
although I suppose that depends on where the trim controls are (I get
the impression that they are often in odd places).

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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
news
Robert Chambers writes:

The discussion of trim in a flight sim on a PC is academic.

Hardly. Trim does the same thing on a simulator that it does in real
life.

In an aircraft, trim is not so much a "convenience" as you seem
to think.

A lot of aircraft and pilots seem to do without it, so obviously it is
not necessary.

--

No really they don't. Elevator trim is taught during your first lesson for
your Private certificate.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
news
Robert Chambers writes:

The discussion of trim in a flight sim on a PC is academic.

Hardly. Trim does the same thing on a simulator that it does in real
life.

In an aircraft, trim is not so much a "convenience" as you seem
to think.

A lot of aircraft and pilots seem to do without it, so obviously it is
not necessary.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

They must be some really strong pilots... as not trimming a C-172 will give
your arms quite a workout and results in a lot of unnecessary work on behalf
of the pilot, and makes it harder to fly "smoothly and precisely" as you are
constantly "fighting" the force on the elevator control. I can tell which
the difference between approaches where I have the plane nicely trimmed on
on final and the ones where the plane is slightly out of trim, as on the out
of trim approaches I am having to "work more" than I need to and it takes
away from other things I need to be concentrating on to ensure a nice smooth
landing.

Wade Hasbrouck
PP-ASEL
http://spaces.live.com/wadehas