East River turning radius

Recently, Stefano posted:

Gary Drescher wrote:

Oops: your turning radius is about 1200'.


In occasions like these I was trained to do a chandelle.
Immelman turn will also do ;-)

Wow. You can do an Immelman in under 500'? Impressive!

Neil

"Neil Gould" wrote

Wow. You can do an Immelman in under 500'? Impressive!

How about a baby hammerhead turn, with a half roll coming out of it? g
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Neil Gould" wrote

Wow. You can do an Immelman in under 500'? Impressive!

How about a baby hammerhead turn, with a half roll coming out of it? g
--
Jim in NC

Presuming that no one is immediately on top of you, somethng akin to a
duster turn works quite well and only uses about 50 feet to make a really
dramatic difference in the turn radius. I used to do that to turn around a
Tomohawk (PA-38) in a small radius.

Peter

"Peter Dohm" wrote

Presuming that no one is immediately on top of you, somethng akin to a
duster turn works quite well and only uses about 50 feet to make a really
dramatic difference in the turn radius. I used to do that to turn around a
Tomohawk (PA-38) in a small radius.

I wonder if a low time pilot like this one, at what, about 80 hours, could be
taught to do this kind of turn in a Cirrus? Doubtful, I think, don't you?

I didn't even think of a duster turn. Perhaps that should become a new required
maneuver in the private pilot test? g

Or does that go in the classification of, "Hey, y'all, watch this!" /;-o))
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Peter Dohm" wrote

Presuming that no one is immediately on top of you, somethng akin to a
duster turn works quite well and only uses about 50 feet to make a
really
dramatic difference in the turn radius. I used to do that to turn
around a
Tomohawk (PA-38) in a small radius.

I wonder if a low time pilot like this one, at what, about 80 hours, could
be
taught to do this kind of turn in a Cirrus? Doubtful, I think, don't you?

I didn't even think of a duster turn. Perhaps that should become a new
required
maneuver in the private pilot test? g

Or does that go in the classification of, "Hey, y'all, watch this!"
/;-o))
--
Jim in NC

What I did wasn't a true duster turn; I didn't turn out, then greater than
180, and then reverse again. What really happened (the first time I did it)
was that I probably had about 30 hours and was out in the practice area with
my instructor, who believed in tight patterns, for the purpose of horsing
the plane around to become accustomed to its handling characteristics. At
that time, the PA-38 was pretty new to both of us. By the time that he
requested that I turn the plane around over a field in the practice area,
within plus or minus 50 feet of altitude, it was apparent to me (from doing
2G circles and figure 8s around pilons) that the width of that field was
less than the plane's 2G turning diameter at 80 Kts. So, I throttled back,
lost about 25 feet, pulled up, rolled into the bank and around the turn,
leveled the wings, pulled out and brought the power back up. The maneuver
used about half of the altitude tolerance--and about half the width of the
field.

All in all, I would not put it in the category of "Hey, y'all, watch this!"
Instead, it is a precision method that allows a 1G turn with 60 a degree
bank at approach speed, and a resulting tight turning radius. Like any
precision work, it is a good idea to practice it first over a lot of flat
countryside--as we did.

Including steeper banks and some energy management manuevers in the private
pilot training would probably be a good idea.

I think that duster turns, as done by dusters, might be fun to watch--from
the ground. g

Peter
(Off line 'till tomorrow evening)

A manuever similar to what you are describing that I like to do in the
Archer is to leave the power on, pitch up 30 degrees, and hold that
until the airspeed drops to 65 knots. Then I kick full left rudder and
do a flat hammer head style turn while leaving the elevator in a
neutral position to unload the wings to prevent a stall. I also use
just enough aileron to keep the roll angle under control. The result
is that I come out 180 degrees from my original heading and level out
at the same altitude that I started at. The turn radius is very tight.

Dean

Peter
What is a "duster turn"?
Peter Dohm wrote:
"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Neil Gould" wrote

Wow. You can do an Immelman in under 500'? Impressive!

How about a baby hammerhead turn, with a half roll coming out of it? g
--
Jim in NC

Presuming that no one is immediately on top of you, somethng akin to a
duster turn works quite well and only uses about 50 feet to make a really
dramatic difference in the turn radius. I used to do that to turn around a
Tomohawk (PA-38) in a small radius.

Peter

"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote\

What is a "duster turn"?

I'm guessing that is what he is calling a turn that you have done a "few" times,
while crop dusting in fixed wings. g
--
Jim in NC