Instrument Check Ride - What navigation equipment can I use ?

I have started another thread to get a consensus of opinion about what
navigation equipment I will be allowed to use on my instrument check ride.

Recently I installed in the Archer a complete new Garmin left stack
including the GNS530.
I kept one of the old KX170B's [repositioned] and its glideslope indicator
so that I have dual ILS & VOR systems.
I also kept the Flybuddy Loran which I intend to replace with a slide in GPS
replacement to act as another backup.
The ADF went to a new home via eBay.
The aircraft has a Century IIB AP which is now interfaced with a new GDC31
roll steering unit to the 530.
So just like magic, the bird now flies any programmed route that is active
in the 530 including handling horizontal guidance for the missed approach.

Now after flying the aircraft for quite a few IFR training flight plans I am
reasonably sharp in using the new equipment in IMC and flying with it "in
the system".
I am pretty ok using the Century IIB to fly coupled approaches with the
KX170B and coupled VOR radial intercepts.
So with or without the roll steering equipment I am reasonably comfortable
using any or all of the equipment available.

Now comes my question, what will I be allowed to use on my instrument
checkride ?
I am assuming that the examiner will want the 530 switched off at some stage
for at least one ILS approach, while using the KX170B + GS Indicator ?

Thanks
Roy

Roy,

Now comes my question, what will I be allowed to use on my instrument
checkride ?

The FAA has recently changed its attitude on this. The key point is that you
will have to be able to use everything that's there. So you need to be
proficient in autopilot and Garmin use. OTOH, the examiner can declare broken
whichever equipment he wants to. That depends a lot on the mindset of the
examiner, and your CFII should be familiar with the quirks of the examiners in
the area.

I am assuming that the examiner will want the 530 switched off at some stage
for at least one ILS approach, while using the KX170B + GS Indicator ?

I guess so, too. OTOH, mine (in Germany) wouldn't let me program the 430 for
the approach, but he would still allow me to have the simple map display with
ground speed and track (yeah!).

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"Roy N5804F" wrote:
Recently I installed in the Archer a complete new Garmin left stack
including the GNS530.
I kept one of the old KX170B's [repositioned] and its glideslope indicator
so that I have dual ILS & VOR systems.

Sounds like a good plan.

Now comes my question, what will I be allowed to use on my instrument
checkride?

The rules allow the examiner to ask you to demonstrate that you can use
anything that's in the airplane. You should be prepared to fly everything
in the PTS both with and without the A/P. You should be prepared to fly
everything that's possible to fly with the GPS turned off.

I am assuming that the examiner will want the 530 switched off at some stage
for at least one ILS approach, while using the KX170B + GS Indicator ?

You didn't mention a marker beacon receiver, but I assume you've got one of
those (they're often built into audio panels). The KX-170 and a marker
beacon receiver should be enough to enable you to fly an ILS (certainly if
you're vectored to final).

Be prepared to answer questions about when your GPS can legally substitute
for other navaids (such as DME or ADF). Many ILSs have notes like "ADF
required". Your 530 can substitute for the ADF on an ILS, but if the 530
is failed, you can't fly legally fly an "ADF Required" ILS with just the
KX-170.

Understand what PIC emergency authority allows you to do. A reasonable
answer to "can we legally fly this [AFD-required ILS] approach with just
the KX-170?" might be something like, "No, except in an emergency. As a
practical matter, the ADF is only needed for the missed. In an emergency,
I would just ask the controller for alternate missed instructions before I
began the approach".

If he asks you to fly an ILS with both radios working, he will expect you
to dial the localizer freq into the KX-170 as a backup and monitor both
CDIs during the approach.

If I was giving you a checkride with the set of equipment you described, I
would ask you to fly:

1) An ILS with everything working, vectors to final, hand-flown.

2) A GPS approach with everything working, autopilot, full approach.

3) A partial-panel (i.e. DG and AI failed) VOR approach with just the two
VOR receivers (i.e. the NAV portion of the 530 and the KX-170), hand flown,
full approach.

Somewhere over the course of the checkride, I would want you to demonstrate
to me a couple of different A/P modes (i.e. roll steering engaged or
disengaged, heading only mode, nav mode, etc) to make sure you understand
how they all work. Once I was convinced you understood how the box worked,
I would probably have you disengage it for most of the rest of the
checkride. I would expect you to demonstrate to me that you understand its
various failure modes and can recover from some of them. I would expect to
see you running the pre-flight A/P checks per the checklist.

Roy N5804F wrote:
quipment available.

Now comes my question, what will I be allowed to use on my instrument
checkride ?
I am assuming that the examiner will want the 530 switched off at some stage
for at least one ILS approach, while using the KX170B + GS Indicator ?

While things can mysterious fail at any time, you should be prepared
to use everything in the plane.

I got to use my moving map (the only thing that failed was the AI
and the HSI) throughout the checkride. I used the autopilot for
the holding pattern up to the procedure turn on the first approach
and then he requested I hand fly from then on.

After the stickies came on during unusual attitudes, he had me
go fly the GPS approach partial panel. Of course the GPS feeds
my HSI, but it's as easy following the purple line on the map
just zoom it up. He even suggested that I could use the autopilot
if I knew how to make it work in that regime (which I did for a
while, but it was so gusty that the thing was hunting all over
the course, so we decided I could do a better job handflying it).

Do they still require single VOR holds be demonstrated? I'd expect the
autopilot to be declared INOP as soon as the prop turns; it isn't
required equipment for IFR operations on a Dakota. If the instructor
spent more than an hour on showing how the autopilot coupling system
works, then something is wrong. Students aren't encouraged to use
coupled autopilots during training are they?



-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Borchert ]
Posted At: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:29 AM
Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
Conversation: Instrument Check Ride - What navigation equipment can I
use
?
Subject: Instrument Check Ride - What navigation equipment can I
use ?

Roy,

Now comes my question, what will I be allowed to use on my
instrument
checkride ?

The FAA has recently changed its attitude on this. The key point is
that
you
will have to be able to use everything that's there. So you need to be
proficient in autopilot and Garmin use. OTOH, the examiner can declare
broken
whichever equipment he wants to. That depends a lot on the mindset of
the
examiner, and your CFII should be familiar with the quirks of the
examiners in
the area.

I am assuming that the examiner will want the 530 switched off at
some
stage
for at least one ILS approach, while using the KX170B + GS Indicator
?

I guess so, too. OTOH, mine (in Germany) wouldn't let me program the
430
for
the approach, but he would still allow me to have the simple map
display
with
ground speed and track (yeah!).

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Roy,

. I would expect to
see you running the pre-flight A/P checks per the checklist.


Ah, here's a question I have: Would you do/expect the full check
including engaging the A/P on the ground and watching the servos do
their thing when you turn the DG or the OBS? Or would the A/P internal
test routine (I'm thinking of the S-TEC 50 here) suffice?

Thansk!

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

In article ,
Thomas Borchert wrote:

Roy,

. I would expect to
see you running the pre-flight A/P checks per the checklist.


Ah, here's a question I have: Would you do/expect the full check
including engaging the A/P on the ground and watching the servos do
their thing when you turn the DG or the OBS? Or would the A/P internal
test routine (I'm thinking of the S-TEC 50 here) suffice?

Thansk!

The FAA is very into checklists. Do whatever the checklist that came with
the A/P says.

Jim,

If the instructor
spent more than an hour on showing how the autopilot coupling system
works, then something is wrong.

I think you got that wrong. What could be better than to learn about
autopilot use from an instructor. Would you prefer to have the student
figure it out on his own? Why?

Students aren't encouraged to use
coupled autopilots during training are they?

As I said: The FAA's attitude on that has changed, and rightly so,
IMHO. They adapt to the fact that more and more GA planes have
autopilots, and that many accidents could be prevented if only the
pilots knew how to use them beyond "hold the plane straight and level"
mode. The Kennedy accident comes to mind as a perfect example.

So, to answer your question: Yes, in a current training environment,
students are encouraged to ALSO use coupled autopilots during training,
if the aircraft is so equipped. I said "also", as in: in addition to
hand flying. The FAA requires you to be able to use all eqipment in the
aircraft and the PTS calls for a focus on autopilot usage if the plane
is so equipped.

IFR flying is not a macho contest about who can fly in the soup with
the fewest instruments...

FWIW, here in Germany, single pilot IFR requires an operational
two-axis autopilot. One of the few country-specific regulations here
that make sense to me.


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Roy,

The FAA is very into checklists. Do whatever the checklist that came with
the A/P says.


I can do that ;-)

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

In article 000401c713bf$cfcd0670$8202a8c0@omnibook6100,
"Jim Carter" wrote:

Do they still require single VOR holds be demonstrated? I'd expect the
autopilot to be declared INOP as soon as the prop turns; it isn't
required equipment for IFR operations on a Dakota.

It may not be required equipment, but if you turn up for the checkride
with one installed and not INOP, I'll bet the DE will ask to see you use
it. My own checkride (a few years ago) was done in a spiffy new 172SP
with IFR GPS and coupled autopilot, and you can be damn sure the DE made
me do a coupled approach with it (GPS approach, actually) and show that
I knew all the failure modes and how to cope with them as well as how to
use the various AP modes. Since my instructor had spent some time
showing me this and encouraging me to fly with it coupled (as well as
uncoupled, of course), I was well-prepared.

If the instructor
spent more than an hour on showing how the autopilot coupling system
works, then something is wrong. Students aren't encouraged to use
coupled autopilots during training are they?

I'd hope so... Nowadays I fly mostly AP-installed aircraft and am damn
thankful my instructor stressed its use.

Hamish