New NavAir Changes

Given the examples of late; it's coming from all over the place. i.e.,
VFC-13 Det KW wanted to use a _famous_ number, lineage history and
patch as a separate squadron. As a det it had only been established
one year ago.

It's Navy-wide (NAVAIR/OPNAV (AIR)?) regarding the redesignation of all
the operational helo squadrons -- one big, happy community w/ a basic
airframe in use.

In addition, it might be a way some folks are staying *employed* ...
g

W. D. Allen wrote:
Is NAVAIR designating operational squadrons today? Half a century ago it was
NAVAIRPAC and NAVAIRLANT with that authority.

WDA
Former Fury [FJ-4B] Flyer

end

"Mike Weeks" wrote in message
ps.com...
It might interest some to know that:

HT-28 was established 01 NOV 2006 as a new helo training squadron at
Whiting Field.

VFC-13 Det Key West is _officially_ redesignationed VFC-111 (on 01 NOV
2006) and they're going to use the the patch & nickname of WW II's
VF-11 _The Sundowners_.

and last, but not least -

VFA-201 is to disestablished 30 JUN 2007.

Copies of the 3111 & 5450 notices have been posted he

http://doni.daps.dla.mil/newdirectives.aspx

MW


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Mike Weeks wrote:
Given the examples of late; it's coming from all over the place. i.e.,
VFC-13 Det KW wanted to use a _famous_ number, lineage history and
patch as a separate squadron. As a det it had only been established
one year ago.


Yeah, Mike, but it does NOT make them 'Sundowners'. Frankly I think
it's a shame that they're going around pretending that they are . . .
what a load of crap.

Rich

R Leonard wrote:
Mike Weeks wrote:
Given the examples of late; it's coming from all over the place. i.e.,
VFC-13 Det KW wanted to use a _famous_ number, lineage history and
patch as a separate squadron. As a det it had only been established
one year ago.


Yeah, Mike, but it does NOT make them 'Sundowners'. Frankly I think
it's a shame that they're going around pretending that they are . . .
what a load of crap.

Couldn't agree more, Rich. Really sad in a way.

Mike Weeks wrote:
R Leonard wrote:
Mike Weeks wrote:
Given the examples of late; it's coming from all over the place. i.e.,
VFC-13 Det KW wanted to use a _famous_ number, lineage history and
patch as a separate squadron. As a det it had only been established
one year ago.


Yeah, Mike, but it does NOT make them 'Sundowners'. Frankly I think
it's a shame that they're going around pretending that they are . . .
what a load of crap.

Couldn't agree more, Rich. Really sad in a way.

I agree also. If they want to imitate a piece of history, they ught to
become a VC squadron...

wrote:
Mike Weeks wrote:
R Leonard wrote:
Mike Weeks wrote:
Given the examples of late; it's coming from all over the place. i.e.,
VFC-13 Det KW wanted to use a _famous_ number, lineage history and
patch as a separate squadron. As a det it had only been established
one year ago.


Yeah, Mike, but it does NOT make them 'Sundowners'. Frankly I think
it's a shame that they're going around pretending that they are . . .
what a load of crap.

Couldn't agree more, Rich. Really sad in a way.

I agree also. If they want to imitate a piece of history, they ught to
become a VC squadron...

Yeah, and they just couldn't wait. Someone sent me a photo of the
establishment festivities and there was the CO, complete with Sundowner
patch on his flight jacket. I can see that in a few years they'll be
claiming lineage to Fighter I on the Canal . . . and Puuene on Maui
before that . . . and all the way back to Charlie Fenton on day 1 at
North Island.

Somone at the command level should have said, "Not only no, but HELL
NO! Go get your own damn legacy." I don't often have unkind things to
say about the Navy, but they really screwed the pooch on this one.

They're fakes, and, sadly, in a couple of years no one will know the
difference. They, the squadron, and the Navy ought to be ashamed of
themselves.

Rich

R Leonard wrote:
wrote:
Mike Weeks wrote:
R Leonard wrote:
Mike Weeks wrote:
Given the examples of late; it's coming from all over the place. i.e.,
VFC-13 Det KW wanted to use a _famous_ number, lineage history and
patch as a separate squadron. As a det it had only been established
one year ago.


Yeah, Mike, but it does NOT make them 'Sundowners'. Frankly I think
it's a shame that they're going around pretending that they are . . .
what a load of crap.

Couldn't agree more, Rich. Really sad in a way.

I agree also. If they want to imitate a piece of history, they ught to
become a VC squadron...

Yeah, and they just couldn't wait. Someone sent me a photo of the
establishment festivities and there was the CO, complete with Sundowner
patch on his flight jacket. I can see that in a few years they'll be
claiming lineage to Fighter I on the Canal . . . and Puuene on Maui
before that . . . and all the way back to Charlie Fenton on day 1 at
North Island.

Bunch of reservists, not surprised.......

Somone at the command level should have said, "Not only no, but HELL
NO! Go get your own damn legacy." I don't often have unkind things to
say about the Navy, but they really screwed the pooch on this one.

They're fakes, and, sadly, in a couple of years no one will know the
difference. They, the squadron, and the Navy ought to be ashamed of
themselves.

Rich

wrote:
R Leonard wrote:
wrote:
Mike Weeks wrote:
R Leonard wrote:
Mike Weeks wrote:
Given the examples of late; it's coming from all over the place. i.e.,
VFC-13 Det KW wanted to use a _famous_ number, lineage history and
patch as a separate squadron. As a det it had only been established
one year ago.


Yeah, Mike, but it does NOT make them 'Sundowners'. Frankly I think
it's a shame that they're going around pretending that they are . . .
what a load of crap.

Couldn't agree more, Rich. Really sad in a way.

I agree also. If they want to imitate a piece of history, they ught to
become a VC squadron...

Yeah, and they just couldn't wait. Someone sent me a photo of the
establishment festivities and there was the CO, complete with Sundowner
patch on his flight jacket. I can see that in a few years they'll be
claiming lineage to Fighter I on the Canal . . . and Puuene on Maui
before that . . . and all the way back to Charlie Fenton on day 1 at
North Island.

Bunch of reservists, not surprised.......

It wasn't the reservists who OK'd it ...

Somone at the command level should have said, "Not only no, but HELL
NO! Go get your own damn legacy." I don't often have unkind things to
say about the Navy, but they really screwed the pooch on this one.

They're fakes, and, sadly, in a couple of years no one will know the
difference. They, the squadron, and the Navy ought to be ashamed of
themselves.

Rich

R Leonard wrote:


Yeah, Mike, but it does NOT make them 'Sundowners'. Frankly I think
it's a shame that they're going around pretending that they are . . .
what a load of crap.

Couldn't agree more, Rich. Really sad in a way.

I agree also. If they want to imitate a piece of history, they ught to
become a VC squadron...

Yeah, and they just couldn't wait. Someone sent me a photo of the
establishment festivities and there was the CO, complete with Sundowner
patch on his flight jacket. I can see that in a few years they'll be
claiming lineage to Fighter I on the Canal . . . and Puuene on Maui
before that . . . and all the way back to Charlie Fenton on day 1 at
North Island.

Somone at the command level should have said, "Not only no, but HELL
NO! Go get your own damn legacy." I don't often have unkind things to
say about the Navy, but they really screwed the pooch on this one.

They're fakes, and, sadly, in a couple of years no one will know the
difference. They, the squadron, and the Navy ought to be ashamed of
themselves.

Rich

Is this anything new? While in my opinion it would make more sense for
them to try to revive the legacy of one of the former adversary units,
I really don't see the problem with this. I think it is great to see
The Sundowners name revived.

It's been done before. VF-2 (now VFA-2) harked back to the original
VF-2 that flew from the Langley, including using the so-called Langley
strips.
VF-103 Sluggers became The Jolly Rogers when VF-84 was disestablished,
and that unit didn't have a direct lineage back to the original VF-17
either.

Cheers,
Ralph

Ralph_S wrote:
R Leonard wrote:


Yeah, Mike, but it does NOT make them 'Sundowners'. Frankly I think
it's a shame that they're going around pretending that they are . . .
what a load of crap.

Couldn't agree more, Rich. Really sad in a way.

I agree also. If they want to imitate a piece of history, they ught to
become a VC squadron...

Yeah, and they just couldn't wait. Someone sent me a photo of the
establishment festivities and there was the CO, complete with Sundowner
patch on his flight jacket. I can see that in a few years they'll be
claiming lineage to Fighter I on the Canal . . . and Puuene on Maui
before that . . . and all the way back to Charlie Fenton on day 1 at
North Island.

Somone at the command level should have said, "Not only no, but HELL
NO! Go get your own damn legacy." I don't often have unkind things to
say about the Navy, but they really screwed the pooch on this one.

They're fakes, and, sadly, in a couple of years no one will know the
difference. They, the squadron, and the Navy ought to be ashamed of
themselves.

Rich

Is this anything new? While in my opinion it would make more sense for
them to try to revive the legacy of one of the former adversary units,
I really don't see the problem with this. I think it is great to see
The Sundowners name revived.

It's been done before. VF-2 (now VFA-2) harked back to the original
VF-2 that flew from the Langley, including using the so-called Langley
strips.

Please keep in mind that VF/VFA-2 did not attempt to use as the
official patch the original "Flying Chiefs" patch and in addition they
are officially called the "Bounty Hunters".

Using the Langley strips simply acknowledges that there was previously
another fleet carrier squadron Number Two.

http://www.lemoore.navy.mil/cvw-2/cvw2squadrons.htm

VF-103 Sluggers became The Jolly Rogers when VF-84 was disestablished,
and that unit didn't have a direct lineage back to the original VF-17
either.

And that decision came from the very top. Instead of the CNO simply
keeping VF-84, VF-103 was _told_ they are to change patch and official
nickname. IIRC CNO ADM Johnson was quoted as stating in so many words
the Navy tracked its squadrons not on type and numbers, but by patchs
and nicknames. This of course is inaccurate.

The decision will simply add additional confusion to the proper lineage
history of former squadrons (such as what's happened w/ VF/VFA-11 "Red
Rippers", based on what had been the established rules, regs and
instructions.

MW