Lessons learned from the Oregon tragedy

As pilots we should all be aware of the danger of Get-there-itis.

It appears that Get-there-itis caused Kim to keep going long past the
point where he should have turned back. Regardless of what he saw on the
map or other navigation device the road and weather conditions were
shouting "TURN BACK". Yet as conditions worsened he passed up several
opportunities to turn back.

James Kim's poor judgment to not turn back was the probable cause of
this tragedy.

- John Ousterhout -



john smith wrote:
Mr Kim's death resulting from his decision to attempt to walk out of an
area he was unfamiliar with after becoming stranded, raises some thought
provoking questions for aviators.
In years past, this forum has carried several threads on surviving a
crash in a remote area. I behooves us all to review our personal
preparations for off airport landings in areas over which we will be
flying.

You don't need giant muk luks. A good hiking boot would have been a
tremendous asset. Hunting boots would have been better yet and snow
boots the best, With tennis shoes his feet were frozen 10 minutes after
he left the car. Any hat that covers the ears would have been a huge
difference. Any mittens or gloves likewise. To drive into the
mountains without those was reckless. To leave the car without those
was a death sentence.

I just started trying to ID the road he was one and the one thing I
noted was that I-5 was nearby. Why would he leave I-5 except in a
city/town setting?

Ron Lee

Five miles on a deserted road and you can die. Rumor has it
that the mob does hits in the winter near Chicago, by
forcing the victim to drive their own car into the country
and run into a ditch, then try to shovel it out. Then they
leave them with just city street clothes.




"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
| wrote:
|
| Matt Whiting wrote:
|
| I know that is the standard advice, but I'm not sure I
could follow it
| for more than a day or two. Personally, I'd rather die
trying than die
| sitting waiting on someone who may never come.
|
|
|
| I know what you're saying Matt, but I don't think I've
ever heard of
| anybody dying in their car when they got stuck. I'm
sure there's a
| couple of cases, but from all the stories I've heard in
our general
| area (you're in Montrose right?) the vast majority of
exposure deaths
| were when people left a protective shelter.
|
| No, I'm from northern PA. Around here we have about as
many people die
| from CO in their car than from leaving and hiking out.
Granted, we have
| few places as remote as the mountains of the west,
however, we do have
| many places where you can be 20 miles from civilization.
Just look at
| the Detroit sectional in and around Bradford PA.
|
| Matt

Another poster said six. Sixty days, yes, you can starve.
But that sounds more like a suicide by cold. Nobody was
looking for a car on a road for two months...???



"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
|
| You don't starve in six days. You can run out of water,
but
| cold exposure is more likely. Was anybody looking for
the
| person you spoke about?
|
| What part of sixty didn't you understand? :-)
|
|
| Matt

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 20:29:50 GMT, (Ron Lee) wrote:

You don't need giant muk luks. A good hiking boot would have been a
tremendous asset. Hunting boots would have been better yet and snow
boots the best, With tennis shoes his feet were frozen 10 minutes after
he left the car. Any hat that covers the ears would have been a huge
difference. Any mittens or gloves likewise. To drive into the
mountains without those was reckless. To leave the car without those
was a death sentence.

I just started trying to ID the road he was one and the one thing I
noted was that I-5 was nearby. Why would he leave I-5 except in a
city/town setting?

Paper said they'd missed their exit to the road going to the coast and left I-5
thinking they'd found an alternate route.

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 20:25:44 GMT, in rec.aviation.piloting John Ousterhout
wrote:

] It appears that Get-there-itis caused Kim to keep going long past the
] point where he should have turned back. Regardless of what he saw on the
] map or other navigation device the road and weather conditions were
] shouting "TURN BACK". Yet as conditions worsened he passed up several
] opportunities to turn back.
]
] James Kim's poor judgment to not turn back was the probable cause of
] this tragedy.

Another factor was the unknown vandal who cut off the lock and opened the gate
to a road normally closed during the winter.

Ron Wanttaja

Jim Macklin wrote:
Another poster said six. Sixty days, yes, you can starve.
But that sounds more like a suicide by cold. Nobody was
looking for a car on a road for two months...???

Must be my newsserver didn't pick that one up as all I read said sixty.
Yes, it is hard to imagine anyone other than a complete recluse not
being missed for two months.

Matt

Ron Lee writes:

I just started trying to ID the road he was one and the one thing I
noted was that I-5 was nearby. Why would he leave I-5 except in a
city/town setting?

Originally I read that he was trying to find a shortcut.

See

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...,0.027809&om=1

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Newps wrote:
wrote:


Unless you're into reality TV, television is just terrible.


Military channel, History, Discovery, Discovery Times, TLC. There's a
lot of great TV out there.

Used to be. Those channels are good for awhile, but then they start
repeating. Besides, TLC has turned into the freak show / biker build
off network. Discovery has non-stop coverage of sharks and/or dinos,
but even that gets boring after awhile. History is good, but there's
only so much I can take about Romans and Nazis. Military channel is
repeat central, and they got rid of most of the good GA content.

I don't regret ditching cable. Reading is far more interesting, and
I've had plenty to read lately anyway (just got the IA, now working on
the commercial and CFI).

James Robinson wrote:

About 12 years ago, a person named Dewitt Finley drove into the same area
in his camper, and got stuck in snow. He stayed with the truck, and they
found him next spring. He had kept a diary, meticulously noting the
passing days, and anticipating rescue. He starved to death after about 2
month's wait.

The irony was that he got stuck only a few hundred feet from an open road
that he could have easily walked along to safety, but he apparantly never
left the truck to look around.

Ok. So there's one case. I did say there's probably been a couple of
cases. This once incident you cite doesn't make leaving the
car/airplane a good idea. If anything, I think it strengthens the
advice to stay with the car... The guy lived for 60 days!! Almost
amazing that he wasn't found in that time.

Matt Whiting wrote:

I have only what I get with rabbit ears (two local channels and a very
snowy Fox channel), however, I do check MSNBC and CNN on the internet.
This story was plastered everywhere for more than a week. It was pretty
hard to miss, but I'm impressed that you did! :-) It is good to get
away from it all now and then.

Matt

I've got a good excuse! I had my IA checkride last weekend, so I was a
little preoccupied up through that time period.