Downdraft at 12,000 feet

James Robinson writes:

Can somebody explain what he did right/wrong?

Too little information to say.

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Mxsmanic wrote:
James Robinson writes:

Can somebody explain what he did right/wrong?

Too little information to say.

Your training and experience led you to that conclusion?

The ignorant, untrained and inexperienced are most often merely
masturbating their keyboard when they post: I dunno. Silence will
signify the identical idea.
-----

- gpsman

gpsman writes:

Your training and experience led you to that conclusion?

No, the lack of information in the article led me to that conclusion.

The ignorant, untrained and inexperienced are most often merely
masturbating their keyboard when they post: I dunno.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Anyway, if you have more information on the incident, please post it.

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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
gpsman writes:

Your training and experience led you to that conclusion?

No, the lack of information in the article led me to that conclusion.


Looking at a map makes it reasonably clear. He was downwind from and not
much higher than a mountain range.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

Geoff wrote :

Looking at a map makes it reasonably clear. He was downwind from and
not
much higher than a mountain range.

Which is exactly where you'd expect to find a rotor from the wave
spilling over the mountain. Flying into a rotor is more than just your
average downdraft. If it's strong, you can expect serious pitch and
bank excursions. Simply put, the plane can easily be out of control.
Combine that with IMC and loss of control would probably not be far
behind.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)


--
JGalban
Posted at www.flight.org

"JGalban" wrote

Which is exactly where you'd expect to find a rotor from the wave
spilling over the mountain. Flying into a rotor is more than just your
average downdraft. If it's strong, you can expect serious pitch and
bank excursions. Simply put, the plane can easily be out of control.
Combine that with IMC and loss of control would probably not be far
behind.

From what I have read, entering a real rotor, one would be lucky to be spat
out with the wings still attached to the plane.

Loss of control? Certainly.

Loss of plane? Perhaps.

Thoughts? Some out here can discuss rotors with authority, I'm sure.

Jer ? ? ?
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote:
From what I have read, entering a real rotor, one would be lucky to be spat
out with the wings still attached to the plane.

Loss of control? Certainly.

Loss of plane? Perhaps.

Thoughts? Some out here can discuss rotors with authority, I'm sure.

Can't say with authority but no way will I go anywhere near a rotor.
High winds over the Rockies and I don't fly over the mountains.

I have experienced downdrafts and updrafts but nowhere near a rotor.

Ron Lee

Morgans schrieb:

From what I have read, entering a real rotor, one would be lucky to be spat
out with the wings still attached to the plane.

Thoughts? Some out here can discuss rotors with authority, I'm sure.

Glider pilots use rotors routinely as an elevator to the wave. At some
places, the tow plane tows them right into the rotor. (Formation flight
into the rotor.) So far, all wings still in place and everybody still
alive. Just make sure you stay well below vB.

Stefan

Morgans wrote:

"JGalban" wrote

Which is exactly where you'd expect to find a rotor from the wave
spilling over the mountain. Flying into a rotor is more than just your
average downdraft. If it's strong, you can expect serious pitch and
bank excursions. Simply put, the plane can easily be out of control.
Combine that with IMC and loss of control would probably not be far
behind.

From what I have read, entering a real rotor, one would be lucky to be spat
out with the wings still attached to the plane.

Loss of control? Certainly.

Loss of plane? Perhaps.

Thoughts? Some out here can discuss rotors with authority, I'm sure.

Jer ? ? ?

There are rotors, then there are ROTORS!

When the winds aloft, at mountain top altitude (~12,000), are
over 25 KN, the local winds are often over 50 KN because of
the effect of the wind flowing down the (constricted) valleys.

So, over 25 KN winds aloft, I choose to stay FAR away from the
rotors... and WATCH where the waves set-up, as the rotors
are under where the waves peak. Now, just because there is not
enough water in the air to see the wave does not mean that they
don't exist... just that you can not see them.

Winds aloft under 20 KN create a little wave, and some benign (read
FUN) rotors. I am often there in an airplane or glider, touching
the edge of the rotor (no visible moisture), to get lift or sink as
needed. A rotor may be relatively smooth, or VERY rough. It just
depends on the nature of the wind on that day and in that location.

I think it is fun to "go play in the wave" near Leadville, Colorado
and the Ten Mile Range. It is ideally set-up as relatively
north-south, and with a 20 KN wind from the west, it gives an
excellent training situation so that a pilot (with a qualified
mountain instructor on board) can experience the wave. We fly in
the lift, then over to the sink, then go touch the rotor and then
fly back to the lift. DO NOT TRY THIS ON YOUR OWN! I have enough
experience to know where the wave and the rotor are, and always have
several "outs" pre-planned in case I made an incorrect choice.


Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer at frii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 247 Young Eagles!