RF-4 vs RA-5C

Bill Silvey wrote:

wrote in message


Another interesting tidbit about the Vigilante is that the AF
considered putting it back into production for use as an interceptor.


During what time period?


It was somewhere during the late 'sixties/early 'seventies, as part of
the almost never-ending quest for an F-106 replacement.
`Considered putting it back into production' is a bit of a stretch, but
at the time North American Rockwell proposed a derivative of the
Vigilante, with a third engine inserted between (and slightly above) the
two already installed, fed by two dorsal intakes. I have an artist's
impression of the thing (in Planes of Fame 19) in USAF markings and
armed with 6 Phoenix-like missiles (no less) under the fuselage. If
built it would have been quite a beast.

Regards,
Ralph Savelsberg

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:24:57 +0200, Ralph Savelsberg
wrote:



Bill Silvey wrote:

wrote in message


Another interesting tidbit about the Vigilante is that the AF
considered putting it back into production for use as an interceptor.


During what time period?


It was somewhere during the late 'sixties/early 'seventies, as part of
the almost never-ending quest for an F-106 replacement.
`Considered putting it back into production' is a bit of a stretch, but
at the time North American Rockwell proposed a derivative of the
Vigilante, with a third engine inserted between (and slightly above) the
two already installed, fed by two dorsal intakes. I have an artist's
impression of the thing (in Planes of Fame 19) in USAF markings and
armed with 6 Phoenix-like missiles (no less) under the fuselage. If
built it would have been quite a beast.

Regards,
Ralph Savelsberg




I've also read they kicked around the idea of one with two J-58s.

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:48:39 -0600, D. Scott Ferrin
wrote:


I've also read they kicked around the idea of one with two J-58s.

I read that elsewhere, the J58 was also mooted for the Thud and the B58 as
well I believe.

I am sure Ed would like to fill us in on the merits of a J58 powered F-105
:-).

greg


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On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:01:28 +0100, Greg Hennessy
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:48:39 -0600, D. Scott Ferrin
wrote:


I've also read they kicked around the idea of one with two J-58s.

I read that elsewhere, the J58 was also mooted for the Thud and the B58 as
well I believe.

I am sure Ed would like to fill us in on the merits of a J58 powered F-105
:-).

greg



Never heard that about the Thud though I could imagine :-) Others
I've heard considered for the J-58 were a variant of the Crusader III
(which was already pretty fast with the J-75) and several types of
B-58. On the downside I was reading some of the history of the J58
and it seems the one looked at for the Crusader III would have only
had about 26,000lbs of thrust so I'm not sure what it would have got
them as the J75 the prototypes had put out 29k

"Ralph Savelsberg" wrote in message

Bill Silvey wrote:

wrote in message


Another interesting tidbit about the Vigilante is that the AF
considered putting it back into production for use as an
interceptor.


During what time period?


It was somewhere during the late 'sixties/early 'seventies, as part
of the almost never-ending quest for an F-106 replacement.
`Considered putting it back into production' is a bit of a stretch,
but at the time North American Rockwell proposed a derivative of the
Vigilante, with a third engine inserted between (and slightly above)
the two already installed, fed by two dorsal intakes. I have an
artist's impression of the thing (in Planes of Fame 19) in USAF
markings and armed with 6 Phoenix-like missiles (no less) under the
fuselage. If built it would have been quite a beast.

Aha, Hughes Missile Systems strikes again. During that timeframe I'm going
to take a WAG and say that this was mayhap the AIM-45 (not -54) precursor to
the Phoenix. Or perhaps it was Phoenix itself.

Were they thinking about a whole redesign (e.g., redesigned for
land-versus-carrier use undercarriage, without tow bar etc.) or just
painting USAF on the fins?

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Bill Silvey wrote:


It was somewhere during the late 'sixties/early 'seventies, as
part of the almost never-ending quest for an F-106 replacement.
`Considered
putting it back into production' is a bit of a stretch, but at
the time North American Rockwell proposed a derivative of the Vigilante,
with a third engine inserted between (and slightly above) the
two already installed, fed by two dorsal intakes. I have an artist's
impression of the thing (in Planes of Fame 19) in USAF markings
and armed with 6 Phoenix-like missiles (no less) under the fuselage.
If built it would have been quite a beast.


Aha, Hughes Missile Systems strikes again. During that timeframe
I'm going to take a WAG and say that this was mayhap the AIM-45
(not -54) precursor to the Phoenix. Or perhaps it was Phoenix
itself.

Were they thinking about a whole redesign (e.g., redesigned for
land-versus-carrier
use undercarriage, without tow bar etc.) or just painting USAF on
the fins?


I've found an artist's impression on the following page:
http://www.vectorsite.net/ava5.html
(close to the bottom)
It seems like it's a rather extensive redesign.
Apparently two versions were proposed: one in the late `sixties
involving a rocket engine in place of the Vigilante's weapons' /camera
bay and the one I referred to and which is pictured in the above
mentioned page,
fitted with three J-79 engines. This dates back
to 1972 and at least according to the web site, the missile intended
for it was the actual AIM-54 Phoenix, and not one of its older
siblings/ predecessors.

Regards,
Ralph Savelsberg

Ralph Savelsberg wrote in message ...
Bill Silvey wrote:
North American Rockwell proposed a derivative of the Vigilante,
with a third engine inserted between (and slightly above) the
two already installed, fed by two dorsal intakes. I have an artist's
impression of the thing (in Planes of Fame 19) in USAF markings
and armed with 6 Phoenix-like missiles (no less) under the fuselage.
If built it would have been quite a beast.


I've found an artist's impression on the following page:
http://www.vectorsite.net/ava5.html
(close to the bottom)
It seems like it's a rather extensive redesign.
Apparently two versions were proposed: one in the late `sixties
involving a rocket engine in place of the Vigilante's weapons' /camera
bay and the one I referred to and which is pictured in the above
mentioned page,
fitted with three J-79 engines.

I find this really interesting since a fella I knew in college who
grew up down on the Gulf Coast was telling me once about a military
aircraft that crashed somewhere in the North Florida brush swamps
once. Said that the people who saw it going down talked about it
having three afterburning engines in the configuration shown in that
photo. It's been a long time since I've seen the guy, let alone heard
the story, so I don't know what the timeframe was, but could be that
the three-J79'd airframe at least made it to flying test stage.

Jeb Hoge wrote:

Ralph Savelsberg wrote in message
...

Bill Silvey wrote:
North American Rockwell proposed a derivative of the Vigilante,
with a third engine inserted between (and slightly above) the
two already installed, fed by two dorsal intakes. I have an artist's
impression of the thing (in Planes of Fame 19) in USAF markings
and armed with 6 Phoenix-like missiles (no less) under the fuselage.
If built it would have been quite a beast.


I've found an artist's impression on the following page:
http://www.vectorsite.net/ava5.html
(close to the bottom)
It seems like it's a rather extensive redesign.
Apparently two versions were proposed: one in the late `sixties
involving a rocket engine in place of the Vigilante's weapons' /camera
bay and the one I referred to and which is pictured in the above
mentioned page,
fitted with three J-79 engines.


I find this really interesting since a fella I knew in college who
grew up down on the Gulf Coast was telling me once about a military
aircraft that crashed somewhere in the North Florida brush swamps
once. Said that the people who saw it going down talked about it
having three afterburning engines in the configuration shown in that
photo. It's been a long time since I've seen the guy, let alone heard
the story, so I don't know what the timeframe was, but could be that
the three-J79'd airframe at least made it to flying test stage.

That's the first time I read anything about that. As far as I know, it
really never progressed beyond a proposal, some design work and perhaps
wind-tunnel tests.





with a third engine inserted between (and slightly above)
the two already installed, fed by two dorsal intakes. I have
an artist's impression of the thing (in Planes of Fame 19) in
USAF markings and armed with 6 Phoenix-like missiles (no
less) under the fuselage. If built it would have been quite a
beast.


I've found an artist's impression on the following page:
http://www.vectorsite.net/ava5.html


(close to the bottom) It seems like it's a rather extensive
redesign. Apparently two versions were proposed: one in the late
`sixties involving a rocket engine in place of the Vigilante's
weapons' /camera bay and the one I referred to and which is
pictured in the above mentioned page, fitted with three J-79
engines.


I find this really interesting since a fella I knew in college who grew
up down on the Gulf Coast was telling me once about a military aircraft
that crashed somewhere in the North Florida brush swamps once.
Said that the people who saw it going down talked about it having
three afterburning engines in the configuration shown in that photo.
It's been a long time since I've seen the guy, let alone heard the
story, so I don't know what the timeframe was, but could be that the
three-J79'd airframe at least made it to flying test stage.

That's the first time I read anything about that. As far as I know, it
never progressed beyond a proposal, some design work and perhaps
wind-tunnel tests. I've never heard about any flying hardware having
been built.

Regards,
Ralph Savelsberg