Boundaries between Approach/Departure and Center

A Guy Called Tyketto writes:

To answer your first question, there is no such thing as an
'approach or departure center'.

Well, there are frequencies that call themselves Approach or
Departure, and they are distinct from Center. For example, SoCal
Approach seems to cover an awful lot of ground, despite the "Approach"
in the name, and it's not clear which airport's approach it nominally
covers. At times I've wondered exactly what role Los Angeles Center
plays in the area, since it seems that Center never gets a handoff in
some regions.

The problem I have is somewhat unrealistic, because it is in VATSIM.
In real life, there are always controllers on ATC. In VATSIM,
sometimes there aren't (often, actually), and so when you enter an
area that does have a controller, you have to establish contact with
ATC. The part that mystified me is that sometimes Center wants you to
contact them, and sometimes Approach or Departure Control. I suppose
in real life you'd be continuously in contact with ATC, and they would
handle all handoffs, and so you wouldn't have to ask yourself whom to
contact.

However, on charts there are still indications of Approach
frequencies, so if you are not in contact with ATC you can get into
contact with them as required. But the sectionals show only little
boxes, not the limits of ATC coverage. I know I have to establish
communication with ATC in some circumstances (entering Class C, for
example); are these boxes intended to tell me whom to contact when I
do establish contact, or what? There's already a separate list of
frequencies in the legend of the chart, plus the A/FD, so I'm left
scratching my head at times.

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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
The problem I have is somewhat unrealistic, because it is in VATSIM.
In real life, there are always controllers on ATC. In VATSIM,
sometimes there aren't (often, actually), and so when you enter an
area that does have a controller, you have to establish contact with
ATC. The part that mystified me is that sometimes Center wants you to
contact them, and sometimes Approach or Departure Control. I suppose
in real life you'd be continuously in contact with ATC, and they would
handle all handoffs, and so you wouldn't have to ask yourself whom to
contact.

I agree that the "staffing" in VATSIM is causing some of the confusion.
Normally, an IFR flight from origin to destination is going to be in contact
with ATC from beginning to end and will be handed off from one to another
without ever having to look up a frequency. The lines defining the coverage
areas are complex and not something I care to worry about in the air. Plus
there are letters of agreements that define exceptions and special cases
between them that make it even more complicated.

A real-world analogy to your SIM scenario would be flying VFR and trying to
get flight following or a pop-up IFR clearance. It is not always clear what
frequency to contact. I typically look at a nearby airport and use the
Approach frequency listed there or contact FSS and ask them. My experience
is that FSS is right about 75% of the time.


However, on charts there are still indications of Approach
frequencies, so if you are not in contact with ATC you can get into
contact with them as required. But the sectionals show only little
boxes, not the limits of ATC coverage. I know I have to establish
communication with ATC in some circumstances (entering Class C, for
example); are these boxes intended to tell me whom to contact when I
do establish contact, or what? There's already a separate list of
frequencies in the legend of the chart, plus the A/FD, so I'm left
scratching my head at times.

It is typically not too important where the lines of division are and they
change frequently (even based on the hour of the day). Some of the flight
planning software has an overlay mode to show Center boundaries. Interesting
but not too useful. Most Approach areas have multiple frequencies that are
not always in use. So, we are all left scratching our head. I find those
little squiggly frequncy boxes to be totally unusable. First of all, I can
never find one when I need one. Second, when you do make contact, they want
you to switch to a different frequency. I've stopped using them.

Real-world: Go by the airport listing, Center frequency listing, or there is
always FSS that is supposed to know who is covering what. It might take
several attempts to raise somebody but, unless there is a controller strike,
there should be somebody on one of them.

Good luck!
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

Travis Marlatte writes:

I agree that the "staffing" in VATSIM is causing some of the confusion.
Normally, an IFR flight from origin to destination is going to be in contact
with ATC from beginning to end and will be handed off from one to another
without ever having to look up a frequency. The lines defining the coverage
areas are complex and not something I care to worry about in the air. Plus
there are letters of agreements that define exceptions and special cases
between them that make it even more complicated.

Oh well ... maybe someday there will be some full coverage in VATSIM,
although given the hoops one must jump through to become a controller
there, I'm not holding my breath.

It is typically not too important where the lines of division are and they
change frequently (even based on the hour of the day). Some of the flight
planning software has an overlay mode to show Center boundaries. Interesting
but not too useful. Most Approach areas have multiple frequencies that are
not always in use. So, we are all left scratching our head. I find those
little squiggly frequncy boxes to be totally unusable. First of all, I can
never find one when I need one. Second, when you do make contact, they want
you to switch to a different frequency. I've stopped using them.

The GPS gives a frequency for ATC, but I don't know how it decides
which frequency(ies) to list, or how reliable it is.

Real-world: Go by the airport listing, Center frequency listing, or there is
always FSS that is supposed to know who is covering what.

Is FSS fully covered in the real world, or are there areas without it?
VATSIM seems to staff FSS only for overseas flights, if at all.

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