Cloud Flying - Experimental

On Feb 11, 4:55 pm, Steve wrote:
Just got back from the soaring convention in Memphis. There were 2 talks
by pilots that have been flying on IFR clearances.

Shawn Knickerbocker talked about how he set up his Nimbus for cloud
flying, and how he goes about getting and flying under a clearance. He
pointed out that most recent gliders come into this country under an
experimental certificate. If you look at the flight manual, you'll
likely find a section specifying the equipment needed for cloud flying.
Typically the only additional equipment needed is a turn-and-bank. In
the U.S.A. you'll also need a transponder. He also stated it makes a lot
of sense to also have an artificial horizon, and a redundant battery
system. Before he started cloud flying, he spent some time with local
controllers to understand their environment and how to work a clearance.
He also pointed out that you want to be careful which clouds you climb
into - some can tear your wings off. On the other hand, a good cloud is
a smooth climb.

The second talk was by Gordon Boettger about his 2061 KM flight in class
A airspace. He restricts his flying to VFR conditions, but has a T&B and
transponder to be legal to fly in IFR airspace. He put a lot of effort
into getting agreements with the centers whose airspace he flies
through. He even mentioned a SouthWest airline conversation with center.
They wanted to climb, but couldn't because of the glider above them.

It is possible, and legal, to set up a glider for IFR flight. You can
get a clearance. This isn't for the casual pilot.

Steve

Derek Copeland wrote:
The biggest danger in cloud flying is not spinning
or mid-air collisions, it's getting into a spiral dive.
Without reference to blind flying instruments, it is
very easy to get into an ever steepening turn which
will eventually cause the glider to overspeed and to
be over stressed by excessive g. As long as the turn
is reasonably accurate, the apparent direction of gravity
will always be straight down the vertical axis of the
glider, so your senses will tell you that you are flying
straight when you are turning quite steeply. If you
do actually straighten up from a turn, you will then
get a strong sensation that you are now turning in
the opposite direction.

Some years ago a member of the Lasham based Imperial
College Gliding Club got a Skylark into a spiral dive
while cloud climbing. He ended up pulling so much g
that he blacked out and then collapsed through the
seat pan, which is stressed to 9g for a 110 kg person,
and then out through the bottom of the glider. He came
round to find himself falling through the cloud without
a glider, pulled the ripcord on his parachute and survived
relatively unharmed. When the wreckage of the glider
was found, the canopy was still fastened and the seat
belts were still done up, so he definitely hadn't bailed
out!

In the UK the only operational requirements for cloud
flying are that all occupants of the glider must wear
a serviceable parachute and be trained in its use (which
saved the life of the above pilot). However, in my
opinion, you would be mad to enter cloud without at
least a turn and slip indicator, plus serviceable basic
instruments, and some training in blind flying techniques.

If you get into a spin, the best thing to do is to
hold the glider in the spin by applying full up elevator
and into spin rudder until you drop out of the bottom
of the cloud and then to recover. It is possible to
recover from spins by reference to the instruments
alone, and I have done this under the hood with a safety
pilot, but it is not easy and the worst bit is getting
the glider back under control once the spin has stopped.

Derek Copeland

At 22:06 07 February 2007, Jb92563 wrote:
Experimental COA certificate with the Operating limits
letter is what
you are allowed to do with your experimental glider.

Your flight test program that you submitted, documented
and performed
successfully forms the flight capabilities of your
COA.

In other words...if your flight test program to get
the COA done did
not include spins etc...and hence not in your operating
limits letter
then you are not legal to perform those manuevers.

Flying straight and level in a cloud without an artificial
horizon
will only last for about 30 seconds at most since the
turbulence, G'
loads etc will soon cause you
to make incorrect control inputs and ussually results
in overspeeding
and overstressing the structure before you exit the
cloud.

If you have the sense to do it quickly and deliberately
you can slowly
put the stick back and then leave it in the lower right
corner with
full right rudder and get yourself into a stable spin
which by its
very nature will not descend to quickly nor overstress
the aircraft,
although you might get queezy after 10+ turns .......once
clear of
cloud you can do a normal spin recovery without having
overstressed
anything and live to learn never to do that sort of
thing again
without the proper instruments.

You will also find out if your C of G was in the proper
range if you
are unable to recover from the spin.
All airworthy soundly designed gliders should be capable
of a
predictable, repeatable spin recovery when in the
proper C of G
range.

If not then dont fly it, because its not airworthy
and will kill you
the first time you mess up!!!

Ray

Steve, I was there too. Also had several meals with Shawn.
Transponder actually isnt required, even though many think it is, for
IFR flying. He did say that it is a good idea and makes getting
clearances about 90% easier. I am in a different boat than he is
though as I have an amatuer built glider without a operating handbook
so I must prove that my glider meets a suitable standard.