VFR terminology in Class B

My question is: Was the controller correct in this situation to use the phrase
"descend at your discretion."

Thanks for your thoughts.

Matt

It's not a matter of whether he was correct or not, he just gave you
the option of staying at your present altitude or descending. At 7
miles out you'd just continue on the assigned heading until switched
over to tower who might then have you join the left base or make a
straight in approach. Asking if you were cleared for the visual was
just a minor gaffe on your part - I've heard and done worse. Sometimes
you'll be surprised what you'll hear when expecting something else.

Matt wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote
Perfectly acceptable in Class B airspace. If you were never told to
proceed to the field or resume your own navigation or anything else like
that you just hold the last assigned heading. "Descend at your
discretion" would cancel any previously assigned altitude, but not the
heading.

That is my understanding as well. But the last instruction I received from
the approach controller before being handed to the tower was to descend at
my discretion. I decided to turn onto final without ever being specifically
told to do so by the approach controller or the tower controller.

You are still on the last assigned heading, you should fly it until
given something else (the first paragraph is precise and complete). A
good call to make when being assigned to the tower in this case is
"Biggie Tower, 123W descending thru 2,000, airport in sight". At that
point you are going to get 1) "123W Cleared to land Runway 27, 2) "123W
turn right 30 degrees you are number 3 following the Airbus" or 3)
"123W" aka "nothing" in which case you just keep doing what you are doing.

When I'm doing my slow mover Class B thing, I never seem to get lined up
on a runway VFR - they just point me at the airport until the timing is
right then clear me to land - I just head for the threshold at that point.

In article ,
Bill Watson wrote:

When I'm doing my slow mover Class B thing, I never seem to get lined up
on a runway VFR - they just point me at the airport until the timing is
right then clear me to land - I just head for the threshold at that point.

Which is perfectly reasonable, considering that most Class B runways are
long enough that you could fly an entire VFR pattern within their length.

"Matt" wrote in message
et...

That is my understanding as well. But the last instruction I received
from the approach controller before being handed to the tower was to
descend at my discretion. I decided to turn onto final without ever being
specifically told to do so by the approach controller or the tower
controller.

One way clear these questions up, when you reply to his instruction of
'descend at your descretion', say something like 'Piper 123P continuing
inbound for runway 27L on present heading, descending at pilot's
descretion'. If he has a problem with it, he will tell you different.

Mike

In article ,
"Michael Ware" wrote:

"Matt" wrote in message
et...

That is my understanding as well. But the last instruction I received
from the approach controller before being handed to the tower was to
descend at my discretion. I decided to turn onto final without ever being
specifically told to do so by the approach controller or the tower
controller.

One way clear these questions up, when you reply to his instruction of
'descend at your descretion', say something like 'Piper 123P continuing
inbound for runway 27L on present heading, descending at pilot's
descretion'. If he has a problem with it, he will tell you different.

Mike

While you're at it, you might want to tell him what you had for lunch and
ask him if he's got the latest baseball score.

When things are quiet, such verbosity isn't a problem. But, if you're
flying into Class B, you have to be prepared for things to be busy, which
means knowing how to make efficient on the radio.

Matt wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote
Were you ever assigned any heading, altitude, or route?

Yes. He was giving me headings and altitudes to fly, as if I was getting
vectors to the localizer. But I was VFR. Not flying a practice approach.



And he may well have been sending you to the localizer but he knew you
weren't IFR and most of his traffic was IFR so he may have planned to
move you through his airspace like you were IFR.

While a pretty good idea in all controlled airspace, in Bravo just do
what ATC tells you unless you think it is unsafe and be ready to defend
that decision.

Kingfish wrote:
It's not a matter of whether he was correct or not, he just gave you
the option of staying at your present altitude or descending.

And sometimes that's their way of telling you "you're pretty close, you'd
better start descending now!"

.... Alan
--
Alan Gerber
PP-ASEL
gerber AT panix DOT com

Matt,

Given the responses already, I would suggest filing an ASRS form if it
is not too late (for the 10-day rule). The way you described the
incident, while not resulting in any problems and maybe even thought
twice of by the approach controller, indicated a violation of ATC
instructions. I'm surprised no one said this already.

Chris G., PP-ASEL
Salem, Oregon


Matt wrote:
Hello everyone.

Two months ago I flew VFR into Memphis. This was my first time landing at
the primary airport of a Class B. From about 30 miles out, the approach
controller was providing vectors and altitudes to maintain. I was told to
expect runway 27. About seven miles southeast of the airport I was told to
"descend at my discretion." I was not lined up with the runway at this
point, and was not sure if he meant I was just limited to descending or
should intercept the extended centerline. I asked him if I was "cleared for
the visual" and he replied that "cleared for the visual" was an IFR
clearance and I was not IFR. He repeated that I was cleared to "descend at
my discretion." I figured this meant line up and land on 27. I did that
and was handed off to the tower.

At most other towered airports I have been to, the controller always says
something like "enter a 3 mile base for 27" or "report a 3 mile final for
27" or something to that effect. I was expecting the same at Memphis. My
question is: Was the controller correct in this situation to use the phrase
"descend at your discretion."

Thanks for your thoughts.

Matt