Question For Old Naval Aviators

On Feb 25, 5:22 pm, "Flashnews" wrote:
I am thinking about this really hard - and my failing memory still remembers
being so amazed at a full stop landing without a hook and there was wind
over the deck - perhaps that was the deciding factor for hook / no-hook.
Now we also anchored at Kithira where the wind was always 30 to 40 knots
over the deck and we could cycle fighters all day without steaming and fly
clean for ACM missions over the ship. Again the CAG (CVW-17 1982-83) was
very innovative and we did a lot of fun things with squadrons that were
almost 80% TOPGUN graduates (VMFA-531 and VF-11). The COD rides were just
something to try as with the helicopters, A-5's, and A-6's. I also remember
coming over the ramp at around 90 knots - does that sound right

I was on the Indy just before that period and there was NO WAY an F-4
could 'flanchor', not enough wind to shoot the thing while anchored,
and with a max engaging speed of(geeez, don't remember) but the wind
would have to be screaming to land an F-4 at anchor. . Only A/C I ever
saw fly at anchorwere S-3s.

BTW-80% Topgun grads? I don't think so. With each squadron getting
maybe 2 pilot slots per year....besides, Topgun doesn't necessarily
make you good around the boat.

wrote in message

...

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:02:45 -0600, Charlie Wolf
wrote:

Bill -

I was just an enlisted back seater but...

"deck landings" without arresting wires were non-existent, but as I
said, they were possible with enough wind over the deck.

The "Book" agrees. If you have 35-40 kts. of head wind it's possible
on a CVA. Sounds like a "high pucker factor" operation, though.

Deck runs (takeoffs) were extremely common place. with moderate wind
over the deck on a deck like Enterprise or Ranger, C-1's could take
off on the angle fully loaded - with no cat. (And no problem)

We deck ran in TS-2A/B/C during CARQUALS at VT-28 aboard INDEPENDANCE.
No big deal.

I don't recall max takeoff weight. One thing to consider also -- our
runs to Da Nang were relatively short. we rarely took on fuel on the
boat.

I was hoping somebody had a C-1 NATOPS. So far "no joy." :-)

Bill Kambic
Haras Lucero, Kingston, TN
Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

"qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 25, 5:22 pm, "Flashnews" wrote:
I am thinking about this really hard - and my failing memory still
remembers
being so amazed at a full stop landing without a hook and there was wind
over the deck - perhaps that was the deciding factor for hook / no-hook.
Now we also anchored at Kithira where the wind was always 30 to 40 knots
over the deck and we could cycle fighters all day without steaming and fly
clean for ACM missions over the ship. Again the CAG (CVW-17 1982-83) was
very innovative and we did a lot of fun things with squadrons that were
almost 80% TOPGUN graduates (VMFA-531 and VF-11). The COD rides were just
something to try as with the helicopters, A-5's, and A-6's. I also
remember
coming over the ramp at around 90 knots - does that sound right

I was on the Indy just before that period and there was NO WAY an F-4
could 'flanchor', not enough wind to shoot the thing while anchored,
and with a max engaging speed of(geeez, don't remember) but the wind
would have to be screaming to land an F-4 at anchor. . Only A/C I ever
saw fly at anchorwere S-3s.

BTW-80% Topgun grads? I don't think so. With each squadron getting
maybe 2 pilot slots per year....besides, Topgun doesn't necessarily
make you good around the boat.

wrote in message

...

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:02:45 -0600, Charlie Wolf
wrote:

Bill -

I was just an enlisted back seater but...

"deck landings" without arresting wires were non-existent, but as I
said, they were possible with enough wind over the deck.

The "Book" agrees. If you have 35-40 kts. of head wind it's possible
on a CVA. Sounds like a "high pucker factor" operation, though.

Deck runs (takeoffs) were extremely common place. with moderate wind
over the deck on a deck like Enterprise or Ranger, C-1's could take
off on the angle fully loaded - with no cat. (And no problem)

We deck ran in TS-2A/B/C during CARQUALS at VT-28 aboard INDEPENDANCE.
No big deal.

I don't recall max takeoff weight. One thing to consider also -- our
runs to Da Nang were relatively short. we rarely took on fuel on the
boat.

I was hoping somebody had a C-1 NATOPS. So far "no joy." :-)

Bill Kambic
Haras Lucero, Kingston, TN
Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


Au contraire, mon ami. The Saratoga launched many (10 for the first launch
sequence) aircraft while at anchor off Piraeus in August 1971. Carrier was
bow on to the Acropolis up on the hill. I was there in VF103. See ADM Paul
Gilchrist's book "Feet Wet" for a complete description. He was CAG at the
time. The ship took on a lot of water in the #3 Main Machinery Room and was
listing badly. After pumping out a lot of water they needed to launch
aircraft to lighten the load and redistribute the load.

On Feb 28, 9:02 pm, "theref" wrote:
"qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in ooglegroups.com...
On Feb 25, 5:22 pm, "Flashnews" wrote:

I am thinking about this really hard - and my failing memory still
remembers
being so amazed at a full stop landing without a hook and there was wind
over the deck - perhaps that was the deciding factor for hook / no-hook.
Now we also anchored at Kithira where the wind was always 30 to 40 knots
over the deck and we could cycle fighters all day without steaming and fly
clean for ACM missions over the ship. Again the CAG (CVW-17 1982-83) was
very innovative and we did a lot of fun things with squadrons that were
almost 80% TOPGUN graduates (VMFA-531 and VF-11). The COD rides were just
something to try as with the helicopters, A-5's, and A-6's. I also
remember
coming over the ramp at around 90 knots - does that sound right

I was on the Indy just before that period and there was NO WAY an F-4
could 'flanchor', not enough wind to shoot the thing while anchored,
and with a max engaging speed of(geeez, don't remember) but the wind
would have to be screaming to land an F-4 at anchor. . Only A/C I ever
saw fly at anchorwere S-3s.

BTW-80% Topgun grads? I don't think so. With each squadron getting
maybe 2 pilot slots per year....besides, Topgun doesn't necessarily
make you good around the boat.





wrote in message

.. .

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:02:45 -0600, Charlie Wolf
wrote:

Bill -

I was just an enlisted back seater but...

"deck landings" without arresting wires were non-existent, but as I
said, they were possible with enough wind over the deck.

The "Book" agrees. If you have 35-40 kts. of head wind it's possible
on a CVA. Sounds like a "high pucker factor" operation, though.

Deck runs (takeoffs) were extremely common place. with moderate wind
over the deck on a deck like Enterprise or Ranger, C-1's could take
off on the angle fully loaded - with no cat. (And no problem)

We deck ran in TS-2A/B/C during CARQUALS at VT-28 aboard INDEPENDANCE.
No big deal.

I don't recall max takeoff weight. One thing to consider also -- our
runs to Da Nang were relatively short. we rarely took on fuel on the
boat.

I was hoping somebody had a C-1 NATOPS. So far "no joy." :-)

Bill Kambic
Haras Lucero, Kingston, TN
Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

Au contraire, mon ami. The Saratoga launched many (10 for the first launch
sequence) aircraft while at anchor off Piraeus in August 1971. Carrier was
bow on to the Acropolis up on the hill. I was there in VF103. See ADM Paul
Gilchrist's book "Feet Wet" for a complete description. He was CAG at the
time. The ship took on a lot of water in the #3 Main Machinery Room and was
listing badly. After pumping out a lot of water they needed to launch
aircraft to lighten the load and redistribute the load.

Well, shuck my corn..heard of the Sara 'sinkex', but never heard they
shot Phantoms at anchor. They must have been very light and it must've
been quite a shot.