Flight Lessons

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...


In WW II almost no one had a college education. And I think that the vast
majoriity of wash-outs did so not because they weren't smart enough or
that
they couldn't do the job. It was because they could'ot learn FAST ENOUGH.
The
instructors toelrated one error. If you did it agin you got a check ride.
Any
erorr on the check ride and you were out. everything was time dependant. I
think college hones learning skills so you can learn faster. Thousands
of
Bombardiers and navigators washed out not because they weren't good at
their
assigned jobs. It was because they couldn't learn to send and recieve
8wpm in
Morse code in the very limited time allowed. Learning speed was
everything.
There was a war on and they had planes they had it get into the air.


Its interesting to note that the RAF still doesnt require a college
education for its pilots. All they require 2 A levels and 5
GCSE passes, including English language and maths , this wouldnt
get you into many universities and is roughly equivalent to graduating
from high school in the USA.

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...


In WW II almost no one had a college education. And I think that the vast
majoriity of wash-outs did so not because they weren't smart enough or
that
they couldn't do the job. It was because they could'ot learn FAST ENOUGH.
The
instructors toelrated one error. If you did it agin you got a check ride.
Any
erorr on the check ride and you were out. everything was time dependant. I
think college hones learning skills so you can learn faster. Thousands
of
Bombardiers and navigators washed out not because they weren't good at
their
assigned jobs. It was because they couldn't learn to send and recieve
8wpm in
Morse code in the very limited time allowed. Learning speed was
everything.
There was a war on and they had planes they had it get into the air.


Its interesting to note that the RAF still doesnt require a college
education for its pilots. All they require 2 A levels and 5
GCSE passes, including English language and maths , this wouldnt
get you into many universities and is roughly equivalent to graduating
from high school in the USA.

Keith

Rubbish. O-levels exceed that derisory qualification.

Grantland

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...


In WW II almost no one had a college education.

And in fact, it was WWII and the GI bill that changed that,
and the face of the US....

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

"ArtKramr" wrote in message

In WW II almost no one had a college education.

Which is probably why we had the war in the first place :-)

Its interesting to note that the RAF still doesnt require a college
education for its pilots.

Secondary education in the UK is tracked, tested, and standards
enforced. There's absolutely no comparison between the graduate of an
American high school and an equivalent university-track student in
Britain.

Isn't Cranwell (the RAF equivalent of West Point) still a two-year
course? And aren't most UK bachelor's-degree programs still three
years in duration?

These aren't indications of a lesser interest in higher education on
the part of Brits (though there is some of that as well, especially
with respect to women). They're a recognition that British schools and
universities get their students better prepared, at least when it
comes to academics.

I went to graduate school in Manchester. My friends were all
undergraduates, and many were first-year students.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...


Its interesting to note that the RAF still doesnt require a college
education for its pilots.

Secondary education in the UK is tracked, tested, and standards
enforced. There's absolutely no comparison between the graduate of an
American high school and an equivalent university-track student in
Britain.

Isn't Cranwell (the RAF equivalent of West Point) still a two-year
course?

All officer student aircrew complete a 24-week Initial Officer Training
(IOT)
course at RAF College Cranwell, they then progress to the elementary flying
training course at RAF Church Fenton where they receive common core
groundschool training and EFT or if they joined via a University Air
Squadron
EFT is given at Barkston Heath

To progress beyond EFT students are required to pass a Final Handling Test
At this stage pilots are selected for 1 of 3 streams

Fast-Jet Stream
Pilots selected for fast-jet streaming progress to BFJT on the Tucano at RAF
Linton-on-Ouse. The 124 hour BFJT course is designed as a lead in to
fast-jet ATTU at RAF Valley. On successful completion of BFJT, students are
posted to the ATTU to complete advanced flying training, tactics and weapons
training on the Hawk. At the end of this course, pilots are assessed for
either single or 2 seat operations and most progress to an Operational
Conversion Unit (OCU) prior to joining a front-line fast-jet squadron.

Multi-Engine Stream
Approximately half of all ab-initio pilots destined for multi-engine (ME)
training are directly streamed and complete a 30 hour Multi-Engine Lead-In
(MELIN) course on the Firefly. The remainder of the annual intake comprises
students restreamed to ME from elsewhere in pilot training. All are posted
to 45(R) Squadron at RAF College Cranwell to complete either a 70 hour, 45
hour or 30 hour AFT course on the Jetstream, before progressing to an OCU
and a front-line squadron.

Rotary Stream
RAF rotary wing pilot training is conducted at DHFS, RAF Shawbury. The RAF
course comprises a 37 hour basic phase and an 30 hour advanced stage, both
of which are conducted on the Squirrel. Following this, students undertake
64 hours of multi-engine flying on the Griffin before completing 12 hours
SAR training. Successful students then progress through Operational
Conversion Flights to front-line squadrons.

And aren't most UK bachelor's-degree programs still three
years in duration?


For the most part yes though there are some colleges that run 2 year
courses for high flyers or those with pre-existing lesser qualiications
such as the HND/HNC technical qualifications.

Keith

In message , Keith Willshaw
writes
"Cub Driver" wrote in message
.. .
And aren't most UK bachelor's-degree programs still three
years in duration?

For the most part yes though there are some colleges that run 2 year
courses for high flyers or those with pre-existing lesser qualiications
such as the HND/HNC technical qualifications.

I wouldn't call a HND a 'lesser' qualification, particularly compared to
A-levels.

Typically, in mechanical engineering, HND students skipped the first
year of the course that A-level entrants had to plough through; they
then struggled with the hardcore mathematics in Year 2, while
confidently dominating most other fields. (Teamwork paid off, where
students of differing backgrounds supported each other: explain Laplace
transforms one evening, get water-hammer in pipes made understandable in
return)

HND entrants also tended to be significantly older, with several years'
real-world work under their belts (many I knew had earned their HNDs
part-time on the job before going to university) which tended to mean
they spent more time working and less time hung over. Certainly they
tended strongly to cluster towards the top of the class scores.

All this over a decade old, things may have changed since.

--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...
In message , Keith Willshaw
writes
"Cub Driver" wrote in message
.. .
And aren't most UK bachelor's-degree programs still three
years in duration?

For the most part yes though there are some colleges that run 2 year
courses for high flyers or those with pre-existing lesser qualiications
such as the HND/HNC technical qualifications.

I wouldn't call a HND a 'lesser' qualification, particularly compared to
A-levels.


Sure but its narrower than a degree

Typically, in mechanical engineering, HND students skipped the first
year of the course that A-level entrants had to plough through; they
then struggled with the hardcore mathematics in Year 2, while
confidently dominating most other fields. (Teamwork paid off, where
students of differing backgrounds supported each other: explain Laplace
transforms one evening, get water-hammer in pipes made understandable in
return)

HND entrants also tended to be significantly older, with several years'
real-world work under their belts (many I knew had earned their HNDs
part-time on the job before going to university) which tended to mean
they spent more time working and less time hung over. Certainly they
tended strongly to cluster towards the top of the class scores.

All this over a decade old, things may have changed since.


Most HND courses were full time, HNC could be the real
killer 1 day and 1 night per week if you got day release or
3-4 nights otherwise, I know having got 2 of the buggers

Keith

In message , Keith Willshaw
writes
"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...
I wouldn't call a HND a 'lesser' qualification, particularly compared to
A-levels.

Sure but its narrower than a degree

So are A-levels. Maths, Physics, Chemistry at A-level are narrow as hell
compared to what you need for a Mech Eng degree; the HN crew had more
breadth but less depth, especially in fancy maths. What _is_ a
self-tapping screw? Most A-level candidates wouldn't recognise it even
if you shoved it somewhere tender.


Again, that's why the HN crew skipped the first year, and why they often
struggled with hardcore maths but stormed the "real engineering"
courses.

Maybe I'm biased but I feel they turned out better engineers in two
years, than A-level students in three: certainly the exam boards seemed
to agree. A-level students often seemed to hunker down and focus on
'numbers subjects' that they were comfortable with.

All views personal, all expressed opinions assayed as worth precisely
$0.02, same as usual.

--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam

In message , Cub Driver
writes
Isn't Cranwell (the RAF equivalent of West Point) still a two-year
course? And aren't most UK bachelor's-degree programs still three
years in duration?

Three years full-time for my BEng, two years part-time for my MSc. A
four-year full-time UK degree will get you a Master's off the bat.

These aren't indications of a lesser interest in higher education on
the part of Brits (though there is some of that as well, especially
with respect to women). They're a recognition that British schools and
universities get their students better prepared, at least when it
comes to academics.

I used to think so, but times have changed since I went through the
mill. (Doesn't everyone think it's got easier since they sat their
exams?).

Also, from 16 to 18 I studied maths (pure & applied), physics and
chemistry. Nothing else counted for grades - no history, no economics,
the focus at A-level is dismayingly narrow unless you make the effort to
expand for yourself.

--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam