Growth in soaring

I don't think that casinos, watercrafts or off road vehicles compete
with soaring. The decline in soaring is perfectly correlated with the
birth of hang gliding and later paragliding. I am often puzzled about
the amount of effort put into trying to recruit youth into soaring.
Our true market is the middle age and not youth. I think it is largely
a waste of efforts to try to attract youth. It is very hard to compete
with hang gliding and paragliding, which appeals much more to
youngsters who are actually interested in aviation due to their low
cost, simplicity and quick learning. I dare to assume that most
youngsters which are attracted to gliders are those who are mostly
interested in a career in aviation.
The true market is middle aged power pilots and veterans hang/para
glider pilots who are ready to expand their horizon and can afford
the cost and time involved. I don't think enough effort is given to
market our sport to this segment, especially not to the hang gliding
and paragliding world (where I came from). Just my humble opinion.

As for 1800skyride.com and similar domains, they are a big scam
targeting all the aviation ride business and causes serious problems
to our ride operators. My club succedded in scaring them away from
offerring rides in our area, hopefully others will follow suit. Check
out the counter site
http://www.glidersailplanerides.com/ and spread the word.

Ramy


On Mar 16, 11:28 am, "fred" wrote:
A question often asked is "Why has the glider activity declined?" In
1975 we would make about 150 flights on a Sat & Sun. Nothing like that
now but we had our best year 2006 in a long time. The decline (I
believe) is the competition for disposable time Vegas is many times
larger, Indian Casinos abound. Water craft, off road vehicles etc all
compete.
A well known ride operator told me that 1800gliderrides expected to
sell FOUR MILLION in rides in 2007. All sold on the internet. They
have no operations of their own, but have about 900 domain names, most
of them the same. USE CAUTION. fred

I started soaring about 3 years ago. I'm in my mid 50s and have had my
private pilots license for about 10 years. I ended up flying gliders after
having a heart bypass that made it too much of a hassle to keep my medical.

Flying gliders is a lot more fun for me than power flying ever was. I
totally agree that middle aged pilots are a big opportunity for the sport.
I tried to get my son interested in gliders, but he was much more interested
in power flying. I suspect that in 10 - 15 years, he'll get bored with $100
hamburger runs and discover the thrill of gliding too.

Mike Schumann

"Ramy" wrote in message
oups.com...
I don't think that casinos, watercrafts or off road vehicles compete
with soaring. The decline in soaring is perfectly correlated with the
birth of hang gliding and later paragliding. I am often puzzled about
the amount of effort put into trying to recruit youth into soaring.
Our true market is the middle age and not youth. I think it is largely
a waste of efforts to try to attract youth. It is very hard to compete
with hang gliding and paragliding, which appeals much more to
youngsters who are actually interested in aviation due to their low
cost, simplicity and quick learning. I dare to assume that most
youngsters which are attracted to gliders are those who are mostly
interested in a career in aviation.
The true market is middle aged power pilots and veterans hang/para
glider pilots who are ready to expand their horizon and can afford
the cost and time involved. I don't think enough effort is given to
market our sport to this segment, especially not to the hang gliding
and paragliding world (where I came from). Just my humble opinion.

As for 1800skyride.com and similar domains, they are a big scam
targeting all the aviation ride business and causes serious problems
to our ride operators. My club succedded in scaring them away from
offerring rides in our area, hopefully others will follow suit. Check
out the counter site
http://www.glidersailplanerides.com/ and spread the word.

Ramy


On Mar 16, 11:28 am, "fred" wrote:
A question often asked is "Why has the glider activity declined?" In
1975 we would make about 150 flights on a Sat & Sun. Nothing like that
now but we had our best year 2006 in a long time. The decline (I
believe) is the competition for disposable time Vegas is many times
larger, Indian Casinos abound. Water craft, off road vehicles etc all
compete.
A well known ride operator told me that 1800gliderrides expected to
sell FOUR MILLION in rides in 2007. All sold on the internet. They
have no operations of their own, but have about 900 domain names, most
of them the same. USE CAUTION. fred





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

A well known ride operator told me that 1800gliderrides expected to
sell FOUR MILLION in rides in 2007. All sold on the internet. They
have no operations of their own, but have about 900 domain names, most
of them the same. USE CAUTION. fred

We had a operator here in Australia they had taken the monies but were in
receivership and will still taking bookings at a revamped redirected
website.

A few clubs and people got burnt.

I use a affiliate program see http://www.mals.net/gliderjoyflights.htm

Most the clubs have signed with the programs who are signed to the affiliate
program I use.

Mal

These are simple overviews. With most programs, the devil's in the
details, so you may need to contact someone to really understand how
these are implemented.

Regarding youth, can't speak to commercial operations, but Mile High
Gliding in Boulder has had some success. http://www.milehighgliding.com/colorado/mhyga.htm

Some SSA chapters have had very successful, on-going youth programs.
Youth involvement is structured on a value-added, performance based
program.
http://www.texassoaring.org Youth Program (about 35 total involved Feb
2006, including a then 17-year old tow pilot)
http://www.harrishillsoaring.org/ Junior program (some good video
links in RAS a while back)

Scholarship programs
http://www.tidewatersoaring.org/html/about_tss.html Tidewater Soaring
Foundation provides flight training scholarships.
http://tucsonsoaring.org/ Scholarship program is no longer active,
but when implemented caused a forty plus member jump.

All of the above have a common aspect. The organizations are, or are
aligned with, 501c(3) charitable, educational non-profit
organizations. There are other programs.

If you are prepared for growth and targeting the 45-year old PSEL
pilot market, contact Larry Touhino about how he's been marketing
soaring with a glider pilots ground school and using the SSA
Introductory membership.
http://www.ocsoaring.org/norobots/club_officers.htm
(sorry Larry, if your phone rings off the hook, but you should write
it up)

Philadelphia Glider Council sold the 'excitement' of soaring at the
AOPA convention a few years ago, which they say was very fruitful.
http://www.pgcsoaring.org/

Or if you're outreach is to the general public
Another approach that seemed pretty successful for introducing people
to soaring was done by Sylvania Soaring Adventures
http://www.soarmidwest.com/ They listed in a continuing education
catalog with a Chicago school. The package included an hour ground
school, lunch, and a flight lesson. The school charged $100/person
for the listing and registration. The FBO package was $100. So
people were willing to pay $200 and drive two hours to experience
this. The first day 20 showed up and they had to cancel their normal
students to accommodate everyone, so they put a limit of 6 per day on
subsequent registrations. I have no idea what their capture rate was
or if they've continued this.

Surely there are similar 'marketing' opportunities near you.
Personally, I recommend a three-lesson package. One soaring flight
is needed to set the hook, single sled rides seldom do. The first
flight is often a blur.

It's the money. Lowering the cost of entry by 50-70% will open the
door to a lot more potential pilots. There are a few winches coming
online around the country. I heard at the SSA convention that the
one that migrated to New York has been very popular. A couple more
are due this spring and there's are secret gathering on deck.

Frank Whiteley


On Mar 16, 4:48 pm, "Mike Schumann" mike-nos...@traditions-
nospam.com wrote:
I started soaring about 3 years ago. I'm in my mid 50s and have had my
private pilots license for about 10 years. I ended up flying gliders after
having a heart bypass that made it too much of a hassle to keep my medical.

Flying gliders is a lot more fun for me than power flying ever was. I
totally agree that middle aged pilots are a big opportunity for the sport.
I tried to get my son interested in gliders, but he was much more interested
in power flying. I suspect that in 10 - 15 years, he'll get bored with $100
hamburger runs and discover the thrill of gliding too.

Mike Schumann

"Ramy" wrote in message

oups.com...



I don't think that casinos, watercrafts or off road vehicles compete
with soaring. The decline in soaring is perfectly correlated with the
birth of hang gliding and later paragliding. I am often puzzled about
the amount of effort put into trying to recruit youth into soaring.
Our true market is the middle age and not youth. I think it is largely
a waste of efforts to try to attract youth. It is very hard to compete
with hang gliding and paragliding, which appeals much more to
youngsters who are actually interested in aviation due to their low
cost, simplicity and quick learning. I dare to assume that most
youngsters which are attracted to gliders are those who are mostly
interested in a career in aviation.
The true market is middle aged power pilots and veterans hang/para
glider pilots who are ready to expand their horizon and can afford
the cost and time involved. I don't think enough effort is given to
market our sport to this segment, especially not to the hang gliding
and paragliding world (where I came from). Just my humble opinion.

As for 1800skyride.com and similar domains, they are a big scam
targeting all the aviation ride business and causes serious problems
to our ride operators. My club succedded in scaring them away from
offerring rides in our area, hopefully others will follow suit. Check
out the counter site
http://www.glidersailplanerides.com/and spread the word.

Ramy

On Mar 16, 11:28 am, "fred" wrote:
A question often asked is "Why has the glider activity declined?" In
1975 we would make about 150 flights on a Sat & Sun. Nothing like that
now but we had our best year 2006 in a long time. The decline (I
believe) is the competition for disposable time Vegas is many times
larger, Indian Casinos abound. Water craft, off road vehicles etc all
compete.
A well known ride operator told me that 1800gliderrides expected to
sell FOUR MILLION in rides in 2007. All sold on the internet. They
have no operations of their own, but have about 900 domain names, most
of them the same. USE CAUTION. fred

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

Some SSA chapters have had very successful, on-going youth programs.
Youth involvement is structured on a value-added, performance based
program.
http://www.texassoaring.org Youth Program (about 35 total involved Feb
2006, including a then 17-year old tow pilot)
http://www.harrishillsoaring.org/ Junior program (some good video
links in RAS a while back)

Add to that, the Greater Boston Soaring Club. So popular that there is a
waiting list for the youth program. See http://soargbsc.com - click on
"Junior Program".

Tony V.

After listening to recruiting strategies for several decades, it seems they
always follow fall into predictable generalizations. "Somewhere out there
exists a large group of people who, if they just knew of us, would break
down the doors to start flight training." The potential groups are usually
thought to be other pilots of airplanes or hang gliders. Sometimes it's
"get 'em young". It's always a simple answer that magically solves the
recruiting problem.
When we look at the present population of gliders pilots we see a bunch of
individuals, few of whom fall into any definable group. The search for a
'magic' recruiting solution that we haven't been able to find for 80+ years
seems to have failed. I think the reality is that we recruit new glider
pilots one-by-one. They can be from any demographic.

I'd suggest that we look closely at those we fail to recruit since failure
is often the best teacher. When you talk to them their first answer will be
"it costs too much". That's a standard, easy answer and, while it can be
true, it's usually not the real reason they are walking away. Press further
and you hear more truthful reasons. They aren't flattering but you have to
listen.

"This place is a dump". "Why would I want to hang around here?" is near the
top of the list. When viewed in that light, you have to admit that most
airports are at best industrial slums. Gliderports seem to be the worst.
Why is it that almost every gliderport is at the end of a long washboarded
dirt road? Try spiffing up the place with some paint and landscaping.

"It's not too friendly around here", is another often heard complaint. What
every glider operation needs is a designated "official greeter". This
person is probably the most important on the field. Make it a real job.

"You guys are hard to find", is a third. My experience is that if the
operation has a phone, it rings three or four times an hour with people
asking for information about gliding. Usually, these calls end up on an
answering machine. Even at commercial operations with a staff, the person
answering calls sometimes has little real interest in soaring beyond selling
a ride. With simple techniques like call forwarding, anyone, anywhere can
take those calls. Get club members to take calls on a rotating basis. An
informed, enthusiastic human voice answering questions goes a long way to
getting a new member.

These are just three ideas, but implemented together, they could go a long
way toward a turnaround.

Bill Daniels





"Tony Verhulst" wrote in message
...

Some SSA chapters have had very successful, on-going youth programs.
Youth involvement is structured on a value-added, performance based
program.
http://www.texassoaring.org Youth Program (about 35 total involved Feb
2006, including a then 17-year old tow pilot)
http://www.harrishillsoaring.org/ Junior program (some good video
links in RAS a while back)

Add to that, the Greater Boston Soaring Club. So popular that there is a
waiting list for the youth program. See http://soargbsc.com - click on
"Junior Program".

Tony V.

snip
What every glider operation needs is a designated "official
greeter".
This person is probably the most important on the field. Make it a
real job.
/snip

As a relative newcomer to the sport, I say the above is very good
advice.

Most of the places I've visited have been very friendly, but when I
decided to take lessons in 2003 and reported to the nearest soaring
school, I felt like I was interrupting them, even when I announced I
wanted to come back for more! (The rest of the training experience was
great.)

-ted/2NO

Bill Daniels wrote:


seems to have failed. I think the reality is that we recruit new glider
pilots one-by-one. They can be from any demographic.

I'd suggest that we look closely at those we fail to recruit since failure
is often the best teacher. When you talk to them their first answer will
be
"it costs too much". That's a standard, easy answer and, while it can be
true, it's usually not the real reason they are walking away.

Bill, i agree with most what you are saying, except that. The clubs in
France have tried a lot to solve the problem using the techniques you
describe below. They have websites, phones, people try to be friendly,
gliderports try to be nice, etc. etc.

But the absolutely *most* important reason why they don't recruit, is that
it is too expensive in time and money. There are people having money but not
time, people having time but not money, but people having both are mostly
retirees, and experience shows that, contrary to what has been said by
other posters, gliding is *not* a sport for retirees.

The reason why it is too expensive is because gliders and towing are too
expensive, period. In clubs here everything else is basically ensured by
volunteers and is gratis.

Press
further
and you hear more truthful reasons. They aren't flattering but you have
to listen.

"This place is a dump". "Why would I want to hang around here?" is near
the
top of the list. When viewed in that light, you have to admit that most
airports are at best industrial slums. Gliderports seem to be the worst.
Why is it that almost every gliderport is at the end of a long washboarded
dirt road? Try spiffing up the place with some paint and landscaping.

"It's not too friendly around here", is another often heard complaint.
What
every glider operation needs is a designated "official greeter". This
person is probably the most important on the field. Make it a real job.

"You guys are hard to find", is a third. My experience is that if the
operation has a phone, it rings three or four times an hour with people
asking for information about gliding. Usually, these calls end up on an
answering machine. Even at commercial operations with a staff, the person
answering calls sometimes has little real interest in soaring beyond
selling a ride. With simple techniques like call forwarding, anyone,
anywhere can
take those calls. Get club members to take calls on a rotating basis. An
informed, enthusiastic human voice answering questions goes a long way to
getting a new member.

These are just three ideas, but implemented together, they could go a
long way toward a turnaround.

Bill Daniels

I think that is nonsense. As long as youngsters can afford to go paragliding
(did you ever look into the cost of paragliding?) or skiing, money isn't the
problem.

"Michel Talon" wrote in message
...
But the absolutely *most* important reason why they don't recruit, is that
it is too expensive in time and money. There are people having money but
not
time, people having time but not money, but people having both are mostly
retirees, and experience shows that, contrary to what has been said by
other posters, gliding is *not* a sport for retirees.

The reason why it is too expensive is because gliders and towing are too
expensive, period. In clubs here everything else is basically ensured by
volunteers and is gratis.

Press
further
and you hear more truthful reasons. They aren't flattering but you have
to listen.

"This place is a dump". "Why would I want to hang around here?" is near
the
top of the list. When viewed in that light, you have to admit that most
airports are at best industrial slums. Gliderports seem to be the worst.
Why is it that almost every gliderport is at the end of a long
washboarded
dirt road? Try spiffing up the place with some paint and landscaping.

"It's not too friendly around here", is another often heard complaint.
What
every glider operation needs is a designated "official greeter". This
person is probably the most important on the field. Make it a real job.

"You guys are hard to find", is a third. My experience is that if the
operation has a phone, it rings three or four times an hour with people
asking for information about gliding. Usually, these calls end up on an
answering machine. Even at commercial operations with a staff, the
person
answering calls sometimes has little real interest in soaring beyond
selling a ride. With simple techniques like call forwarding, anyone,
anywhere can
take those calls. Get club members to take calls on a rotating basis.
An
informed, enthusiastic human voice answering questions goes a long way to
getting a new member.

These are just three ideas, but implemented together, they could go a
long way toward a turnaround.

Bill Daniels

Mike Schumann wrote:
I started soaring about 3 years ago. I'm in my mid 50s and have had my
private pilots license for about 10 years. I ended up flying gliders after
having a heart bypass that made it too much of a hassle to keep my medical.

Flying gliders is a lot more fun for me than power flying ever was. I
totally agree that middle aged pilots are a big opportunity for the sport.
I tried to get my son interested in gliders, but he was much more interested
in power flying. I suspect that in 10 - 15 years, he'll get bored with $100
hamburger runs and discover the thrill of gliding too.


Been soaring since getting out of school in 1972. With a real job I was
finally in a position to get myself to and pay for flying lessons,
knowing then only that I wanted to fly in the worst sort of way (well,
philosophically, anyhow, heh heh). Parental encouragement was
non-existent; the desire came from within, from I know not where. Had
never heard of soaring, and '72 was pre-hang glider boom. Wound up
taking soaring lessons because of my work room-mate/cheaper/easier than
power lessons, and...this to me seemed key then and remains so
today...deep down I knew I wanted to fly for sheer personal enjoyment,
since my coke bottles precluded military/commercial avenues (i.e. could
not fly for a living, at least in any way that I could then see). Hang
gliding never attracted me due (initially) to absence of 3-axis control,
then 'landing gear' concerns (in my 20's!), and ultimately because
soaring was and continues to be so much of a challenge and fun.

My working observation is soaring attracts those who seek it...for
whatever reason. Some, like me, simply seek the challenge and rewards
of some sort of 'acceptable flight,' and in that sense are easily
identifiable. Age seems to hardly be a factor for these types, but
opportunity certainly is. Others don't seem to know what they seek
until after blundering into it somehow. I've no idea how to
attract/market-to these types, beyond keeping one's antennae wiggling,
and assisting where possible. Again, opportunities...

YMMV.

Regards,
Bob W.