Growth in soaring

Ramy wrote:
On Mar 25, 6:22 am, wrote:
A few years ago at Aboyne, I had an interesting chat with a hang
glider pilot who was starting gliding. He was quite competitive but
did not have the £11,000 or so to buy a top competition hang glider.
There are some old but still very good glass gliders around like the
Kestrel 19, for less than that, so he decided to switch and was going
to buy a share in one when he was qualified.

Interesting case, as in the US there is no way one will save money by
moving from hang gliding to gliding (assuming maintaining the same
level of activity). Comparing a top of the line 11,000 hang glider
with a Kestrel is like comparing apple to oranges, the equivalent is
more like a $100,000 sailplane. The ratio is close to 10:1 in price,
so the equivalent to the Kestrel will be the typical $2000-$3000 hang
glider.

The hang glider pilot may not see it that way at all, instead, he
discovers he can spend 11,000 (pounds, dollars, whatever) on a sailplane
and get FAR more performance than he could with even the finest hang
glider avialable. He can have a great cross-country flight covering much
more ground and it doesn't end in a retrieve like it always did in his
hang glider. Further, he is totally impressed that he can fly that
glider for several years and sell it for as much, likely more, than he
paid for it, while his $11,000 hang glider has lost value. And he has a
nice, easy drive to the airport instead of beating up his truck on
logging roads up some mountain to the launch site.

Oh, one more thing: the pilot's wife is so pleased that he now makes it
home in time for dinner!

Based on a conversation with a former hang glider pilot that was
spending less by soaring in a sailplane, flying more, and enjoying it
more. And it was only a Ka-6e that he was flying.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

Eric, many of your points are valid and some of the reasons I switched
last year to sailplanes from HG.

When I go flying in my sailplane I fly and typically am able to soar
95+% of the time and 2/3's of the time I am able to do some XC. My
percentage of flying, soaring and XC in my HG was 50%. If I consider
the time invested in trying to fly it is cheaper, in the long run, to
fly sail planes. The number of days I can fly and fly safely is much
greater.

I have also introduced a few HG pilots to sailplanes and when
explaining the minimal costs of the club here in UT they are amazed at
how cheap it is per hour of flying!

Regarding numbers for HG, my last HG cost me ~$13,000 (list price at
1.32 for the euro is $16,950) and provides a 20/1 glide and a ~110 FPM
sink rate. All carbon construction, except for dacron sail, 14.6
meter span and has spoilers and flaps for controls! Our competition
system and format is very similar to sailplane and the majority of
time we land back at the home field. Most HG competitions are held in
the flat lands and aerotow with ultralights is the ticket! In 2006
the world championships were held in FL, right down the road from
Seminole where the US Seniors are held, and we averaged 85-120 mile
triangle flights per day.

Just wanted to shed some light on the current technology of HG's. I
agree that sailplane clubs should be aware of the local HG and PG
clubs, make friends with them and be sure to educate them low cost of
sail plane flying.

Ron Gleason

On Mar 27, 5:52 am, "Ron Gleason" wrote:
Eric, many of your points are valid and some of the reasons I switched
last year to sailplanes from HG.

When I go flying in my sailplane I fly and typically am able to soar
95+% of the time and 2/3's of the time I am able to do some XC. My
percentage of flying, soaring and XC in my HG was 50%. If I consider
the time invested in trying to fly it is cheaper, in the long run, to
fly sail planes. The number of days I can fly and fly safely is much
greater.

I have also introduced a few HG pilots to sailplanes and when
explaining the minimal costs of the club here in UT they are amazed at
how cheap it is per hour of flying!

Regarding numbers for HG, my last HG cost me ~$13,000 (list price at
1.32 for the euro is $16,950) and provides a 20/1 glide and a ~110 FPM
sink rate. All carbon construction, except for dacron sail, 14.6
meter span and has spoilers and flaps for controls! Our competition
system and format is very similar to sailplane and the majority of
time we land back at the home field. Most HG competitions are held in
the flat lands and aerotow with ultralights is the ticket! In 2006
the world championships were held in FL, right down the road from
Seminole where the US Seniors are held, and we averaged 85-120 mile
triangle flights per day.

Just wanted to shed some light on the current technology of HG's. I
agree that sailplane clubs should be aware of the local HG and PG
clubs, make friends with them and be sure to educate them low cost of
sail plane flying.

Ron Gleason

IMVHO, most of the competitive HG pilots I know about that have
embraced sailplanes are flying the stink out of them and are
outstanding XC pilots.

Bring it on,

Frank Whiteley

Frank Whiteley wrote:


Just wanted to shed some light on the current technology of HG's. I
agree that sailplane clubs should be aware of the local HG and PG
clubs, make friends with them and be sure to educate them low cost of
sail plane flying.

Ron Gleason

IMVHO, most of the competitive HG pilots I know about that have
embraced sailplanes are flying the stink out of them and are
outstanding XC pilots.

That's been my observation, also. My belief is anyone that flies a HG
actively for several hundred hours has the determination, skills, and
judgment to do well and fly safely in sailplane. And it doesn't take
long for them to learn which way to move the stick, either.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

Yes, all good and valid points, and precisely the reason why I also
switched from HG to sailplanes. And the cost per XC mile is indeed
lower. But the overall cost of owning a half decent glider and paying
for aerotows is still a magnitude compare to HG IMHO. There are many
good reasons to switch from HG to sailplanes, but cost isn't one of
them...

Ramy

On Mar 27, 4:52 am, "Ron Gleason" wrote:
Eric, many of your points are valid and some of the reasons I switched
last year to sailplanes from HG.

When I go flying in my sailplane I fly and typically am able to soar
95+% of the time and 2/3's of the time I am able to do some XC. My
percentage of flying, soaring and XC in my HG was 50%. If I consider
the time invested in trying to fly it is cheaper, in the long run, to
fly sail planes. The number of days I can fly and fly safely is much
greater.

I have also introduced a few HG pilots to sailplanes and when
explaining the minimal costs of the club here in UT they are amazed at
how cheap it is per hour of flying!

Regarding numbers for HG, my last HG cost me ~$13,000 (list price at
1.32 for the euro is $16,950) and provides a 20/1 glide and a ~110 FPM
sink rate. All carbon construction, except for dacron sail, 14.6
meter span and has spoilers and flaps for controls! Our competition
system and format is very similar to sailplane and the majority of
time we land back at the home field. Most HG competitions are held in
the flat lands and aerotow with ultralights is the ticket! In 2006
the world championships were held in FL, right down the road from
Seminole where the US Seniors are held, and we averaged 85-120 mile
triangle flights per day.

Just wanted to shed some light on the current technology of HG's. I
agree that sailplane clubs should be aware of the local HG and PG
clubs, make friends with them and be sure to educate them low cost of
sail plane flying.

Ron Gleason

Ramy, we can agree to disagree. I just hope I am able to achieve a
tenth of what you have done with sail planes.

Another advantage with sail planes is the ability to join a club, in
most areas, and have access to ships without having to purchase your
own equipment.

Soaring season is just starting here in UT, well the tow facilities
are just opening up!

Happy soaring

Ron Gleason

Oh, one more thing: the pilot's wife is so pleased that he now makes it
home in time for dinner!

I can relate to that :-)

Based on a conversation with a former hang glider pilot that was
spending less by soaring in a sailplane, flying more, and enjoying it
more. And it was only a Ka-6e that he was flying.

For me, in the Northeast US, a day of hang gliding meant a multi-hour
drive (one way), and then a long hike to the launch site - it was an all
day affair. Because we have trees everywhere, launch site usability on a
given day was often limited by the wind direction. Trekking to the
launch site and then not flying got old after a while (OK, it took a
couple of decades :-) ).

I'm very happy flying my LS6 but nothing can replace flying from the top
of a mountain of launching from a cliff (very different on a calm day
than on a windy day). I miss it sometimes.

Tony V.

Tony Verhulst wrote:

Oh, one more thing: the pilot's wife is so pleased that he now makes
it home in time for dinner!

I can relate to that :-)

Based on a conversation with a former hang glider pilot that was
spending less by soaring in a sailplane, flying more, and enjoying it
more. And it was only a Ka-6e that he was flying.

For me, in the Northeast US, a day of hang gliding meant a multi-hour
drive (one way), and then a long hike to the launch site - it was an all
day affair. Because we have trees everywhere, launch site usability on a
given day was often limited by the wind direction. Trekking to the
launch site and then not flying got old after a while (OK, it took a
couple of decades :-) ).

I'm very happy flying my LS6 but nothing can replace flying from the top
of a mountain of launching from a cliff (very different on a calm day
than on a windy day). I miss it sometimes.

Sounds like someone should also own a SparrowHawk and some bungey cord!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org