Old, but interesting topic

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Why not?

It autotunes the frequency and selects the inbound course of the
approach you have selected, it does about 20 miles out.

You can override it anytime, you check it during your approach
briefing.
It does not follow it unless you arm the approach on the panel.


I don't see any problem with it, as with anything on the aircraft you
have the ultimate control, I let the autopilot fly the aircraft most
of
the time, but I always monitor what it does.

Well, you have to.. obviously. They do strange things from time to
time..

Didn't mean to suggest you didn't. But the way you said it sounded like
you would let it nav onto the ils and fly it off it's own bat not using
the ILS at all, just it's own input like an LNAV non precision.
We don't even allow LNAV intercepts of ILS's. We always intercept from
heading select, though we do allow a glidepath intercept from vnav from
below. I wouldn't trust the fjukkwit to do that, though. I wouldn't let
him use a toaster, in fact.



Bertie

Well I agree not to trust it blindly, computers are computers.

True that most of the time you intercept using heading mode, most of the
time you are on radar vectors.

But when you are not on vectors and you are using the nav fuction to
follow the STAR, you can leave the panel on NAV, the FMS will autotune
the ILS frequency, set the imbound track, as the LOC comes alive the
flght director will switch to "green data" intercept the LOC and the
Glide path using the navaid. All that can be done on autopilot.
As I said, all the time the pilot will monitor it, and of course manual
intervention is still needed to configure the aircraft and ultimately to
land it.

Flydive wrote in :

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Why not?

It autotunes the frequency and selects the inbound course of the
approach you have selected, it does about 20 miles out.

You can override it anytime, you check it during your approach
briefing.
It does not follow it unless you arm the approach on the panel.


I don't see any problem with it, as with anything on the aircraft
you
have the ultimate control, I let the autopilot fly the aircraft most
of
the time, but I always monitor what it does.

Well, you have to.. obviously. They do strange things from time to
time..

Didn't mean to suggest you didn't. But the way you said it sounded
like
you would let it nav onto the ils and fly it off it's own bat not
using
the ILS at all, just it's own input like an LNAV non precision.
We don't even allow LNAV intercepts of ILS's. We always intercept
from
heading select, though we do allow a glidepath intercept from vnav
from
below. I wouldn't trust the fjukkwit to do that, though. I wouldn't
let
him use a toaster, in fact.



Bertie

Well I agree not to trust it blindly, computers are computers.

True that most of the time you intercept using heading mode, most of
the
time you are on radar vectors.

But when you are not on vectors and you are using the nav fuction to
follow the STAR, you can leave the panel on NAV, the FMS will autotune
the ILS frequency, set the imbound track, as the LOC comes alive the
flght director will switch to "green data" intercept the LOC and the
Glide path using the navaid. All that can be done on autopilot.
As I said, all the time the pilot will monitor it, and of course
manual
intervention is still needed to configure the aircraft and ultimately
to
land it.

No, I can't do that. For one thig, it's company policy we don't do it in
any of our airplanes, and for another, the possibility of a parralell
intercept due to even a minute amount of map shift is too great, so I
just wouldn't..

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Flydive wrote in :

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Why not?
It autotunes the frequency and selects the inbound course of the
approach you have selected, it does about 20 miles out.

You can override it anytime, you check it during your approach
briefing.
It does not follow it unless you arm the approach on the panel.

I don't see any problem with it, as with anything on the aircraft
you
have the ultimate control, I let the autopilot fly the aircraft most
of
the time, but I always monitor what it does.
Well, you have to.. obviously. They do strange things from time to
time..

Didn't mean to suggest you didn't. But the way you said it sounded
like
you would let it nav onto the ils and fly it off it's own bat not
using
the ILS at all, just it's own input like an LNAV non precision.
We don't even allow LNAV intercepts of ILS's. We always intercept
from
heading select, though we do allow a glidepath intercept from vnav
from
below. I wouldn't trust the fjukkwit to do that, though. I wouldn't
let
him use a toaster, in fact.



Bertie
Well I agree not to trust it blindly, computers are computers.

True that most of the time you intercept using heading mode, most of
the
time you are on radar vectors.

But when you are not on vectors and you are using the nav fuction to
follow the STAR, you can leave the panel on NAV, the FMS will autotune
the ILS frequency, set the imbound track, as the LOC comes alive the
flght director will switch to "green data" intercept the LOC and the
Glide path using the navaid. All that can be done on autopilot.
As I said, all the time the pilot will monitor it, and of course
manual
intervention is still needed to configure the aircraft and ultimately
to
land it.

No, I can't do that. For one thig, it's company policy we don't do it in
any of our airplanes, and for another, the possibility of a parralell
intercept due to even a minute amount of map shift is too great, so I
just wouldn't..

Bertie

Well, company policy is one thing, what the technology can do is another.
The map shift has nothing to do with it, the FD will intercept the
localizer signal and follow is just as it would if you would tune it
manually and intercept it on heading select.
As you intercept the LOC you will not be using the FMS commands anymore
but the navaid signal.

Flydive wrote in :

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Flydive wrote in :

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Why not?
It autotunes the frequency and selects the inbound course of the
approach you have selected, it does about 20 miles out.

You can override it anytime, you check it during your approach
briefing.
It does not follow it unless you arm the approach on the panel.

I don't see any problem with it, as with anything on the aircraft
you
have the ultimate control, I let the autopilot fly the aircraft
most
of
the time, but I always monitor what it does.
Well, you have to.. obviously. They do strange things from time to
time..

Didn't mean to suggest you didn't. But the way you said it sounded
like
you would let it nav onto the ils and fly it off it's own bat not
using
the ILS at all, just it's own input like an LNAV non precision.
We don't even allow LNAV intercepts of ILS's. We always intercept
from
heading select, though we do allow a glidepath intercept from vnav
from
below. I wouldn't trust the fjukkwit to do that, though. I wouldn't
let
him use a toaster, in fact.



Bertie
Well I agree not to trust it blindly, computers are computers.

True that most of the time you intercept using heading mode, most of
the
time you are on radar vectors.

But when you are not on vectors and you are using the nav fuction to
follow the STAR, you can leave the panel on NAV, the FMS will
autotune the ILS frequency, set the imbound track, as the LOC comes
alive the flght director will switch to "green data" intercept the
LOC and the Glide path using the navaid. All that can be done on
autopilot. As I said, all the time the pilot will monitor it, and of
course
manual
intervention is still needed to configure the aircraft and
ultimately
to
land it.

No, I can't do that. For one thig, it's company policy we don't do it
in any of our airplanes, and for another, the possibility of a
parralell intercept due to even a minute amount of map shift is too
great, so I just wouldn't..

Bertie

Well, company policy is one thing, what the technology can do is
another. The map shift has nothing to do with it, the FD will
intercept the localizer signal and follow is just as it would if you
would tune it manually and intercept it on heading select.

no it won't, not if it intercepts the FMC track first and thats not in
the same place as the runway.


As you intercept the LOC you will not be using the FMS commands
anymore but the navaid signal.


IF you intercept it. That's the point and that's why we don't allow it.
We also consider it to be good practice pilot machine interface.
You're more in theh loop. Hdg sel only comes on when you're within a few
miles of interception if you're not already on it.


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:


Bertie
Well, company policy is one thing, what the technology can do is
another. The map shift has nothing to do with it, the FD will
intercept the localizer signal and follow is just as it would if you
would tune it manually and intercept it on heading select.

no it won't, not if it intercepts the FMC track first and thats not in
the same place as the runway.


It will NOT, intercept, never, the FMC track, again as the LOC becomes
alive the FD will drop the FMC(switch from FMC guidance to navaids) and
intercept the LOC, the signal from the navaid, the FMC will again come
online only if you select it or if you select TOGA.


As you intercept the LOC you will not be using the FMS commands
anymore but the navaid signal.


IF you intercept it. That's the point and that's why we don't allow it.
We also consider it to be good practice pilot machine interface.
You're more in theh loop. Hdg sel only comes on when you're within a few
miles of interception if you're not already on it.


Bertie

If the ILS is working you will definetely intercept it, there is
absolutely no difference if you intercept following the FMC guidance or
if you are on heading, you will intercept the ILS signal fro the navaid
on the ground.

You are always monitoring the instruments and the FMC and autopilot, or
at least I am. I don't believe you fly with the autopilot on, in any
phase of the flight without monitoring it

Flydive wrote in :

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:


Bertie
Well, company policy is one thing, what the technology can do is
another. The map shift has nothing to do with it, the FD will
intercept the localizer signal and follow is just as it would if you
would tune it manually and intercept it on heading select.

no it won't, not if it intercepts the FMC track first and thats not
in the same place as the runway.


It will NOT, intercept, never, the FMC track, again as the LOC becomes
alive the FD will drop the FMC(switch from FMC guidance to navaids)
and intercept the LOC, the signal from the navaid, the FMC will again
come online only if you select it or if you select TOGA.


If the loc comes alive.



As you intercept the LOC you will not be using the FMS commands
anymore but the navaid signal.


IF you intercept it. That's the point and that's why we don't allow
it. We also consider it to be good practice pilot machine
interface. You're more in theh loop. Hdg sel only comes on when
you're within a few miles of interception if you're not already on
it.


Bertie

If the ILS is working you will definetely intercept it,

No I won't definitely intercept it.

Now be a good boi and **** off. I have trolling to do.


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Flydive wrote in :


It will NOT, intercept, never, the FMC track, again as the LOC becomes
alive the FD will drop the FMC(switch from FMC guidance to navaids)
and intercept the LOC, the signal from the navaid, the FMC will again
come online only if you select it or if you select TOGA.

If the loc comes alive.

Well if the LOC is off the air you won't be doing any approach, it will
not intercept it, but this also applies if you are flying manually
doesn't it.



As you intercept the LOC you will not be using the FMS commands
anymore but the navaid signal.

IF you intercept it. That's the point and that's why we don't allow
it. We also consider it to be good practice pilot machine
interface. You're more in theh loop. Hdg sel only comes on when
you're within a few miles of interception if you're not already on
it.


Bertie
If the ILS is working you will definetely intercept it,

No I won't definitely intercept it.

Now be a good boi and **** off. I have trolling to do.


Bertie

Of course it will if you have the approach preselected, in exactly the
same way it will intercept it if you are on heading and being vectored.