Cessna BRS

"Skyman1957" wrote in message
oups.com...
Q: Will the new Cessna LSA have a factory installed ballistic recovery
parachute option? Yes or No.

Let me know your gut feeling. I want to see if group intelligence
theory works. Thanks in advance!

Skyman1957


I vote it will be an option, but not included.

In article ,
"Maxwell" wrote:

I vote it will be an option, but not included.

I would concur with that.

An issue is the additional weight of the BRS to an already weight l
imited aircraft.

Granted, the weight limit is an artificial one. The weight limit
none-the-less dictates the design.

john smith wrote:
In article ,
"Maxwell" wrote:

I vote it will be an option, but not included.

I would concur with that.

An issue is the additional weight of the BRS to an already weight l
imited aircraft.

Granted, the weight limit is an artificial one. The weight limit
none-the-less dictates the design.

I agree. The weight will kill it. What suprises me is that the FAA didn't
grant a wiaver for BRS weight in LSA as they did in for ultralights with
floats.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:
john smith wrote:
An issue is the additional weight of the BRS to an already weight l
imited aircraft.

Granted, the weight limit is an artificial one. The weight limit
none-the-less dictates the design.

I agree. The weight will kill it.

What exactly is the weight penalty for a BRS? For an LSA my understanding
is that total system weight was in the ~29 to ~35 lb range. (Or put another
way, around 5 to 6 gallons of fuel.)

Price penalty would probably in the ~US$4100 to 4500 range.

Both BRS Parachutes and Magnum Parachutes seem to offer comparable products
in price and system weights:

http://www.brsparachutes.com/ViewDoc...?DocumentID=84
http://www.magnumparachutes.com/products.htm

Jim Logajan wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:
john smith wrote:
An issue is the additional weight of the BRS to an already weight l
imited aircraft.

Granted, the weight limit is an artificial one. The weight limit
none-the-less dictates the design.

I agree. The weight will kill it.

What exactly is the weight penalty for a BRS? For an LSA my
understanding is that total system weight was in the ~29 to ~35 lb
range. (Or put another way, around 5 to 6 gallons of fuel.)

Price penalty would probably in the ~US$4100 to 4500 range.

Both BRS Parachutes and Magnum Parachutes seem to offer comparable
products in price and system weights:

http://www.brsparachutes.com/ViewDoc...?DocumentID=84
http://www.magnumparachutes.com/products.htm

That weight is the only the BRS itself and not what would have to be done to
the airframe itself to add the system and while it doesn't seem like a lot
it is about 10% of the useful load of an LSA and it is weight that is much
further back than the fuel tanks so it will count for more in virtually any
LSA installation.

Don't forget to add to the price that it will have to repacked every 6
years. While I don't know what they charge I'd bet it ain't cheap.

Plus I never really liked the idea of having an explosive device right
behind my head. And yes, I not particularly thrilled about having one in
front of me aimed at my chest in my car either, but a lot more of those have
been built and I figure most of the bugs have been worked out.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote

That weight is the only the BRS itself and not what would have to be done
to the airframe itself to add the system and while it doesn't seem like a
lot it is about 10% of the useful load of an LSA

130+ pounds? No way!
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote

That weight is the only the BRS itself and not what would have to be
done to the airframe itself to add the system and while it doesn't
seem like a lot it is about 10% of the useful load of an LSA

130+ pounds? No way!

1300 pounds of useful load. what LSA's are you flying?

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:
That weight is the only the BRS itself and not what would have to be
done to the airframe itself to add the system and while it doesn't
seem like a lot it is about 10% of the useful load of an LSA and it is
weight that is much further back than the fuel tanks so it will count
for more in virtually any LSA installation.

Well somehow the Flight Design CT manages to include a BRS as standard
equipment yet still weigh in at only 649 lbs yet still provide an airframe
capable of a 1320 lbs gross weight. (Properly equipped for day VFR looks to
cost ~$105k. Adding navcom radios also adds weight above their 649 lbs.
http://www.flightdesignusa.com/ )

The CT is the kind of competition Cessna has to go up against. That's why
Cessna may not have any choice but to include a parachute. But I'm still
counting on their bean-counters (possibly with assistance from their un-
imaginative engineering and manufacturing side) to nix the idea.

Don't forget to add to the price that it will have to repacked every 6
years. While I don't know what they charge I'd bet it ain't cheap.

Repacking cost is not an "unknown" or particularly hard to find information
- it is listed on BRS Parachutes web site right here (under "BRS Products"
menu item "BRS Repack Center"):
http://www.brsparachutes.com/Default.aspx?TabId=25

About US$1500 for the LSA models. Amortized over 6 years, ~$21/month.
Hardly a show-stopping cost at ~6 large Starbucks Lattes/month (assuming a
venti Latte costs $3.50.) ;-)

Plus I never really liked the idea of having an explosive device right
behind my head. And yes, I not particularly thrilled about having one
in front of me aimed at my chest in my car either, but a lot more of
those have been built and I figure most of the bugs have been worked
out.

Can't help you there. How many people have died from exploding BRS rockets
so far?

Jim Logajan wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:
That weight is the only the BRS itself and not what would have to be
done to the airframe itself to add the system and while it doesn't
seem like a lot it is about 10% of the useful load of an LSA and it
is weight that is much further back than the fuel tanks so it will
count for more in virtually any LSA installation.

Well somehow the Flight Design CT manages to include a BRS as standard
equipment yet still weigh in at only 649 lbs yet still provide an
airframe capable of a 1320 lbs gross weight. (Properly equipped for
day VFR looks to cost ~$105k. Adding navcom radios also adds weight
above their 649 lbs. http://www.flightdesignusa.com/ )

The CT is the kind of competition Cessna has to go up against. That's
why Cessna may not have any choice but to include a parachute. But
I'm still counting on their bean-counters (possibly with assistance
from their un- imaginative engineering and manufacturing side) to nix
the idea.



Flight Design has done a fantastic job with the CT. How they got the weight
to that level amazes me. If Cessna were smart they'd just buy Flight Design
out and make the CT their LSA entry in the market. It's high wing and they
could say CT stands for Cessna Traveler or some other word that starts with
T.

I thought about a BRS in the Zenith I'm building. It was going to take up
virtually all of my cargo space plus I just didn't see the need for it.







Don't forget to add to the price that it will have to repacked every
6 years. While I don't know what they charge I'd bet it ain't cheap.

Repacking cost is not an "unknown" or particularly hard to find
information - it is listed on BRS Parachutes web site right here
(under "BRS Products" menu item "BRS Repack Center"):
http://www.brsparachutes.com/Default.aspx?TabId=25

About US$1500 for the LSA models. Amortized over 6 years, ~$21/month.
Hardly a show-stopping cost at ~6 large Starbucks Lattes/month
(assuming a venti Latte costs $3.50.) ;-)


I never said it was an unknown I just said I didn't know it. I'm sure that
$1500 is what they charge when you ship it to them. A&P will add some more
to that to take it out and put it back. It is cheaper than I expected
though.



Plus I never really liked the idea of having an explosive device
right behind my head. And yes, I not particularly thrilled about
having one in front of me aimed at my chest in my car either, but a
lot more of those have been built and I figure most of the bugs have
been worked out.

Can't help you there. How many people have died from exploding BRS
rockets so far?

Not that I know of but hasn't they started warning rescue folks that they
might blow during the rescue process?

Plus I never really liked the idea of having an explosive device right
behind my head. And yes, I not particularly thrilled about having one in
front of me aimed at my chest in my car either, but a lot more of those
have
been built and I figure most of the bugs have been worked out.


I never liked either idea, and still don't!

Peter
( Sparing y'all the rant)