slips to landing in PTS

You are correct on both points. It isn't required and many CFIG's & DPE's
don't know that. In fact, as you also point out, there is danger involved.
A danger is that a slip may taught as an alternative to spoilers - a trick
to have in your back pocket "just in case".

If a pilot of a slick, high performance glider mis-identifies the spoiler
handle and, seeing no result from whatever handle he is pulling, reverts to
a slip to complete the landing, he will almost certainly overshoot. Better
training is to teach the pilot to identify why the 'spoilers' are having no
effect - i.e. look at the handle.

High performance gliders will slip nicely, but the resulting descent rate is
often not high enough for a normal approach and landing - particularly not
if the approach is begun with too much energy.

I'm glad to see the FAA clarifying the slip requirement in the PTS.

Bill Daniels


"BB" wrote in message
ups.com...
RAS fans may be interested in the results of an investigation by an
instructor/examiner in our club. The question is, do the PTS really
require a slip all the way to landing without ever touching the
spoilers?

(Why? We fly from a short runway, surrounded by houses and trees, and
we have modern, low drag gliders rather than 2-33s. For us, this is a
chancy maneuver with an experienced instructor in back, and clearly
dangerous to send solo students off to practice it on their own.)

It turns out the answer is no; not only is the maneuver not part of
the PTS, the FAA says examiners should not ask for it. But many
examiners and FSDOs don't know this, and think that the maneuver is
required.

The official guidance is in the January 2000 designee update. Here's
the relevant text:

We have had questions on whether the applicant
should complete the landing, with or without the
use of drag devices.

There was never any intent to require an applicant to
complete the landing without the use of drag
devices. The applicant is only required to
demonstrate a slip (forward or side) without using
drag devices, to position the glider for a safe
landing. Element 6 of the TASK states; "make
smooth, proper, and positive control applications
during recovery from the slip." Once this has been
accomplished, the maneuver being evaluated is
over. The applicant then lands the glider within the
designated landing area, using drag devices as
appropriate.

Most important for examiner standardization, the
examiner should not add or decrease elements to
this task, or any other task, by asking the applicant
to do more or less than is required.

The direct link is below, but will get broken up. You can find it by
googling "faa desingee update."

John Cochrane BB

http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviat..._01_Update.pdf

With a Janus, DuoDiscus, ASW19... it is certainly a very efficient
alternative to airbreaks.

"Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote in message
. ..
You are correct on both points. It isn't required and many CFIG's & DPE's
don't know that. In fact, as you also point out, there is danger
involved. A danger is that a slip may taught as an alternative to
spoilers - a trick to have in your back pocket "just in case".

If a pilot of a slick, high performance glider mis-identifies the spoiler
handle and, seeing no result from whatever handle he is pulling, reverts
to a slip to complete the landing, he will almost certainly overshoot.
Better training is to teach the pilot to identify why the 'spoilers' are
having no effect - i.e. look at the handle.

High performance gliders will slip nicely, but the resulting descent rate
is often not high enough for a normal approach and landing - particularly
not if the approach is begun with too much energy.

I'm glad to see the FAA clarifying the slip requirement in the PTS.

Bill Daniels


"BB" wrote in message
ups.com...
RAS fans may be interested in the results of an investigation by an
instructor/examiner in our club. The question is, do the PTS really
require a slip all the way to landing without ever touching the
spoilers?

(Why? We fly from a short runway, surrounded by houses and trees, and
we have modern, low drag gliders rather than 2-33s. For us, this is a
chancy maneuver with an experienced instructor in back, and clearly
dangerous to send solo students off to practice it on their own.)

It turns out the answer is no; not only is the maneuver not part of
the PTS, the FAA says examiners should not ask for it. But many
examiners and FSDOs don't know this, and think that the maneuver is
required.

The official guidance is in the January 2000 designee update. Here's
the relevant text:

We have had questions on whether the applicant
should complete the landing, with or without the
use of drag devices.

There was never any intent to require an applicant to
complete the landing without the use of drag
devices. The applicant is only required to
demonstrate a slip (forward or side) without using
drag devices, to position the glider for a safe
landing. Element 6 of the TASK states; "make
smooth, proper, and positive control applications
during recovery from the slip." Once this has been
accomplished, the maneuver being evaluated is
over. The applicant then lands the glider within the
designated landing area, using drag devices as
appropriate.

Most important for examiner standardization, the
examiner should not add or decrease elements to
this task, or any other task, by asking the applicant
to do more or less than is required.

The direct link is below, but will get broken up. You can find it by
googling "faa desingee update."

John Cochrane BB

http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviat..._01_Update.pdf

On Apr 16, 12:15 am, "Bert Willing" willing_no_spam_ple...@ir-
microsystems.com wrote:
With a Janus, DuoDiscus, ASW19... it is certainly a very efficient
alternative to airbreaks.


For the ASW-19b the slip is also a very effective augmentation to
full airbrakes. I regularly practiced full rudder, full airbrake,
slips and used the technique more than once in a tight off airport
landing.

Andy