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#11
August 26th 03, 05:26 PM
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snip my mistake from three days ago
Do I? Thanks a lot! It is particularly valueablefrom you who has a stainless credibility of high flying US NAVY aviation expert. Although the question remains do all US NAVY aviation experts still believe that Tu-160s and russian NAVY Tu-22M3s are the same planes? Just curiosity. No, comrade Mikey, I simply made a small mistake that was discovered days ago and apologized for at that time. Gordon 
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#13
August 26th 03, 10:03 PM
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#14
August 26th 03, 10:44 PM
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Russia would be better off if it sold its Tu-160s to the Confederate Air Force
and used the money to buy medicines: AIHA's CommonHealth What does the coming decade hold for the New Independent States? "Demograhically the outlook is bleak. I expect population growth to decline and possibly even become negative over the next few years, in virtually all of the former Republics. Although it is difficult to generalize, several factors contribute to this trend. First, and most visibly, is the military unrest in several regions and the attendant emigration patterns.... Second, my gloomy projections reflect disturbing decreases in life expectancy, and equally troubling increases in infant mortality. Moreover, abortions continue at a high level, often causing secondary infections and infertility. Thus in many regions of Russia and Ukraine, crude death rates now exceed crude birth rates.... In part these patterns reflect the third notable factor in NIS demographic trends: dramatic increases in childhood diseases. For example, Moscow, which has a population of 9 million, recorded an astonishing 46 cases of diphtheria in 1988, 94 in 1989, 688 in 1990, and 1,100 in 1991. The 1991 incidence of diphtheria in Moscow (12.5 per 100,000) was more than 7, 000 times the rate in the US (.0016 per 100,000). Stated another way, if the incidence of diphtheria in the US were the same as it is in Moscow, diphtheria would strike 30,500 Americans each year. Tragically, we can also expect these remarkable numbers to climb in the NIS, because immunization levels in the NIS are much below the minimum considered necessary to prevent an epidemic. Current global standards define that level as 90 percent (although Soviet sources usually referred to 95 percent as the necessary epidemic-prevention level). For the NIS as a whole, immunization levels are below 80 percent. In Russia, those rates hovered near 65 percent; in Uzbekistan they run as low as 40 percent. All of these conditions have been aggravated by long decades of environmental degradation. For example, 70 million persons in the NIS currently live in cities where air pollutants exceed Maximum Pollution Concentration levels (the "PDK") by five times: 50 million reside in cities where pollutants exceed the PDK by ten times or more. In general, each five-fold increase in pollution rates over the PDK represents a doubling in the illness rate. Surface water and land contamination throughout the NIS pose analogous problems. Perhaps the single most important environmental factor now under study is radioactivity. Chernobyl's release of 50 million curies is minor compared to the release of radioactivity by military testing in Chelyabinsk, Sami-Palatinsk, and the Northern Seas, or the release of radioactivity by civilian nuclear explosions throughout the entire country. I believe that this radioactivity is related to the sharply rise in birth defects and deformities throughout the former Soviet Union. It also offers an explanation for why life expectancies are so low (45 to 50 years at birth) in areas such as the northern tier of Russia and the Urals. All of these factors contribute to relatively low life expectancy throughout the NIS. The current situation is greatly aggravated by the state of the health care system in the NIS. Medicines are in such short supply that a leading Russian physician told the Moscow Medical Society that the expects 1.5 million excess deaths in Russia this year due solely to lack of medications -not including shortages of bandages, single-use syringes and needles, electrocardiographs, and other supplies and equipment. There is no simple cure for this confluence of negative factors...." Murray Feshbach is Research Professor of Demography at Georgetown University (Washington, DC). Chris Mark
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#15
August 26th 03, 11:51 PM
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#16
August 27th 03, 04:57 AM
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(Michael Petukhov) wrote in message . com...
http://gazeta.ru/lenta.shtml?274014#274014 (in russian) Aug 25, 7:40 commander-in-chief of Russian NAVY admiral Kuroedov told press that forces of russian pacific ocean fleet have detected in Saturday and also today foreign submarines in the area near Kamchatka where large scale manoeuvres of our fleet are carried out. "We are fully in control of this situation and prepared to interact with our foreign "observers" in this way as well. Perhaps those subs came instead of observers who were invited but did not came from some countries", he said //Interfax Yesterday there were news reports that two Tu-160s arrived to Vladivostok to carry out missions in "long distant ocean zone". Tu-160s never operated in Pacific Ocean area. Michael I'm told that the Russians had a huge Joke with an american nuclear sub after exercises in Australias North recently. After the exercises the Americans were relaxing on their "steel beach" (Mouring the submarine in such level that it forms a recreational beach.) A Russian "observer" sub that the Americans knew was there suddenly sufaced at high speed for 20 seconds and its bow wave washed the USN sailors into the water. I'm sure there was payback.
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#17
August 27th 03, 02:35 PM
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(The Enlightenment) wrote in message om...
(Michael Petukhov) wrote in message . com... http://gazeta.ru/lenta.shtml?274014#274014 (in russian) Aug 25, 7:40 commander-in-chief of Russian NAVY admiral Kuroedov told press that forces of russian pacific ocean fleet have detected in Saturday and also today foreign submarines in the area near Kamchatka where large scale manoeuvres of our fleet are carried out. "We are fully in control of this situation and prepared to interact with our foreign "observers" in this way as well. Perhaps those subs came instead of observers who were invited but did not came from some countries", he said //Interfax Yesterday there were news reports that two Tu-160s arrived to Vladivostok to carry out missions in "long distant ocean zone". Tu-160s never operated in Pacific Ocean area. Michael I'm told that the Russians had a huge Joke with an american nuclear sub after exercises in Australias North recently. After the exercises the Americans were relaxing on their "steel beach" (Mouring the submarine in such level that it forms a recreational beach.) A Russian "observer" sub that the Americans knew was there suddenly sufaced at high speed for 20 seconds and its bow wave washed the USN sailors into the water. I'm sure there was payback. Sounds like a joke. Michael
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#18
August 27th 03, 05:08 PM
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On 26 Aug 2003 20:57:31 -0700, (The
Enlightenment) wrote: (Michael Petukhov) wrote in message . com... http://gazeta.ru/lenta.shtml?274014#274014 (in russian) Aug 25, 7:40 commander-in-chief of Russian NAVY admiral Kuroedov told press that forces of russian pacific ocean fleet have detected in Saturday and also today foreign submarines in the area near Kamchatka where large scale manoeuvres of our fleet are carried out. "We are fully in control of this situation and prepared to interact with our foreign "observers" in this way as well. Perhaps those subs came instead of observers who were invited but did not came from some countries", he said //Interfax Yesterday there were news reports that two Tu-160s arrived to Vladivostok to carry out missions in "long distant ocean zone". Tu-160s never operated in Pacific Ocean area. Michael I'm told that the Russians had a huge Joke with an american nuclear sub after exercises in Australias North recently. After the exercises the Americans were relaxing on their "steel beach" (Mouring the submarine in such level that it forms a recreational beach.) A Russian "observer" sub that the Americans knew was there suddenly sufaced at high speed for 20 seconds and its bow wave washed the USN sailors into the water. I'm sure there was payback. You gotta admit though that is pretty funny :-)
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#19
August 27th 03, 05:51 PM
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(Jack Linthicum) wrote in message . com...
(Mikhail Medved) wrote in message . com... (Jack Linthicum) wrote in message . com... (Mikhail Medved) wrote in message om... (Jack Linthicum) wrote in message . com... (Michael Petukhov) wrote in message . com... http://gazeta.ru/lenta.shtml?274014#274014 (in russian) Aug 25, 7:40 commander-in-chief of Russian NAVY admiral Kuroedov told press that forces of russian pacific ocean fleet have detected in Saturday and also today foreign submarines in the area near Kamchatka where large scale manoeuvres of our fleet are carried out. "We are fully in control of this situation and prepared to interact with our foreign "observers" in this way as well. Perhaps those subs came instead of observers who were invited but did not came from some countries", he said //Interfax Yesterday there were news reports that two Tu-160s arrived to Vladivostok to carry out missions in "long distant ocean zone". Tu-160s never operated in Pacific Ocean area. Probably could make this statement 360 days out of the year and it would be true, no need to actually 'detect' them, they are there. Deployment of Tu-160s reminds me of the chapter in one of the "We Joined the Navy" books in which the aviators each get up and recite their search plan with no sightings. One junior type actually saw a submarine and is the hit of the debrief. What are Tu-160s like at low altitude? Good gas mileage, as we used to say? Fine observation areas, the esplanade deck with its floor to ceiling glass and comfortable observation points? Get real, 600 knots is not going to see anything unless the thing wants to be seen. These are submarines, not submersible boats. Where did you get an idea that Tu-160 were going to be used for subs detection or on the low altitude? Do you have anything to say on the subject? If the answer is decisive "no", why did you bother writing? http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/87/...123_fleet.html Well then, maybe you can explain what they are doing ? Why should I? "Yesterday there were news reports that two Tu-160s arrived to Vladivostok to carry out missions in "long distant ocean zone". Tu-160s never operated in Pacific Ocean area." The poster juxapositioned the two statements, I didn't. Maybe they are looking for nice U.S. Navy escort by F-14s or trying to find an American aircraft carrier? The following information is based on articles in Nezavisimaya Gazeta and other Moscow papers May 23-25. "On May 15, TU-95 and TU-160 strategic bombers and TU-22 long-range bombers accomplished military training over the Polar and Pacific oceans. All the bombers had a full battle load: Each T-95 carried 6 X-55 missiles, each TU-160 12 missiles. The X-55 usually is equipped with a 200-kiloton nuclear warhead. All the bombers simulated hitting important U.S and U.K. targets." Not a single word about hunting submarines or carrying out low-altitude missions. This is what Russians consider "refuting the argument". Mikhail volunteered a statement about finding a "foreign" submarine somewhere that the Pacific Ocean Fleet could find and announce. The he added a statement about Tu-160s going to Valdivostok. Then stated that Tu-160s had never operated in the Pacific Ocean area. Those sound like connected statements, please demonstrate the disconnect between the three statements or stop whining about your meager ration of strategic aviation. One, two of the total Tu-160s are off to visit Grandma. Whooee folks aint them Rooshians the limit? You're right and statements were not very related. But you picked the wrong Mikhail to blame: those unrelated statements were posted by Mikhail Petukhov, not Mikhail Medved. I just noted that your own statement was incorrect and, by the way, quite disdainful with no apparent reason.
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#20
August 27th 03, 06:15 PM
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(Michael Petukhov) wrote in message m...
(The Enlightenment) wrote in message om... (Michael Petukhov) wrote in message . com... http://gazeta.ru/lenta.shtml?274014#274014 (in russian) Aug 25, 7:40 commander-in-chief of Russian NAVY admiral Kuroedov told press that forces of russian pacific ocean fleet have detected in Saturday and also today foreign submarines in the area near Kamchatka where large scale manoeuvres of our fleet are carried out. "We are fully in control of this situation and prepared to interact with our foreign "observers" in this way as well. Perhaps those subs came instead of observers who were invited but did not came from some countries", he said //Interfax Yesterday there were news reports that two Tu-160s arrived to Vladivostok to carry out missions in "long distant ocean zone". Tu-160s never operated in Pacific Ocean area. Michael I'm told that the Russians had a huge Joke with an american nuclear sub after exercises in Australias North recently. After the exercises the Americans were relaxing on their "steel beach" (Mouring the submarine in such level that it forms a recreational beach.) A Russian "observer" sub that the Americans knew was there suddenly sufaced at high speed for 20 seconds and its bow wave washed the USN sailors into the water. I'm sure there was payback. Sounds like a joke. Question: did the Russians get their much-valued suntime in before they did the super belly flop? My experience with our semi-trusted neighbors to the North is that they truly love their rays.
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