LAK-12 Question

I have noticed over the years that this glider sells for what seems to
be a very low price given that it is a near 50:1 glider. But I notice
lately that there are also some for sale on Wings & Wheels with
relatively low total time:

320 hours $21k
260 hours $20k
200 hours $15k

Other than the obvious issues of dealing with a more cumbersome glider
to assemble, ground-handle, and store, is there some other inherent
problem with these gliders? I would expect to see a lot more hours on
gliders of this vintage, and a higher price for gliders of this
performance.

TIA

-Doug

I have a little time in a friend's Lak-12 flying XC out of Turf, AZ.

Nice glider, if a little crude compared to similar German offerings.
But everything works.

Cockpit is big and comfortable, except for a "roger hook" type thingy
at the rear of the canopy that would probably have put a dent in my
noggin on a hard landing - but then I sat way back with the backrest
removed. No real comfort issues during several 3- 4 hour flights.

Flies nice, but it is a 20 meter ship, so adverse yaw is an issue.
Real good weak weather ship. Never got to fly it ballasted, but
chasing my friends in their 15 meter/std ships, I would gain on climbs
and lose on fast long glides in typical strong AZ conditions - exactly
what you would expect for an unballasted 20 m ship. On weak days, it
would easily outclimb smaller ships, and late afternoon/evening final
glides were wonderful - felt like you could go forever!.

Landing took some care due to adverse yaw and long wings. Also, wheel
is too far aft (IMHO), so it is easy to put on nose using the
effective wheel brake (very un-german in that respect!).

Now the bad part. ONE PIECE WINGS. Real heavy to rig/derig, huge
trailer.

So solve the rigging issue (one man rig, lots of friends, hangar) and
it's really got a lot of bank for the buck!

I think it would be a great ship for the midwest (lots of runways/big
fields to land in) but I worried about landing out in small narrow
desert strips with it.

If offered, I would fly one again in a heartbeat!

Kirk
LS6-b "66"

Kirk is right on with his description. It appears very similar in
most respects to the Jantar-1 (19m), which I did own and fly.

When I drove my trailer on to the field, all rigging volunteers
instantly disappeared! When I got a hangar, it proved an enjoyable
ship to own and fly. I suspect the same is true of the LAK-12.

I wouldn't consider it if you're going to rig every day before flying.

Mike

I've owned my LAK-12 since 1998. I assemble it in the spring and leave
it on the ramp all season, putting it in the trailer in the fall. The
assembly process looks intimidating, but can be made easier.

This tip was passed on to me by a visiting Brit at Minden: With the
glider assembled, note the height of the main wheel off the ramp while
in the fuselage dolly, then measure the wing stand heights when they are
in position to remove all load from the spar locking pin. If you can
duplicate this configuration during each successive assembly, the spar
pin will slip right in after levering the wings together. He also
showed me how to lengthen the lever, for more leverage.

While it is true that your friends will all suddenly hear their wife
calling when you start to assemble your LAK-12, ignore them. I can get
mine assembled nearly completely on my own, using the factory wing
dolly. It's usually the last 3/4" of wing insertion where I need
someone to steady each tip while I lever it together.

It is accurate that each LAK-12 wing weighs 230# but remember that each
inner panel of a ASW-17 weighs 210#, which shows how much extra
complexity is required to produce a two piece wing. One piece wings are
an example of the KISS principle.

I found that towing my LAK-12 with a Dodge Grand Caravan plus tow
package, was the minimum acceptable vehicle. A Volvo wagon is marginal
above 50mph. A Chevrolet/GMC Subdivision is definitely better. I've
towed the 42' trailer empty behind a Honda Civic, which shocks the
Expedition owners towing jet skis.

The LAK-12 water ballast system (200 liters/50 gallons) has the easiest
fill/dump system that I've ever seen. No more wondering if the day is
going to be good enough to justify the effort of adding water. It fills
so quickly unattended that I can't complete washing the glider before
the ballast tanks become full. The polyurethane paint means it stands
up well to being tied down outside without covers. Polish it every few
seasons and it looks great.

I've been very happy with my LAK-12. It is very easy to fly which is
why the Soviet sport gliding federation would put newly licensed pilots
in it for XC training. Higher performance - fewer landouts. One thing
I learned from a Carl Herold XC camp is that gliders should be landed at
actual airstrips and not farm fields. I fly to keep a landable airstrip
within reach at all times. While I've not yet landed out, there have
been times where I've deviated to a landable airstrip with the plan that
I would either find lift and climb out to continue the task, or I would
land at the airstrip and call for a retrieve.

Best regards,
Ken
San Jose, CA

On May 12, 12:21 pm, Ken Ward wrote:
I've owned my LAK-12 since 1998. I assemble it in the spring and leave
it on the ramp all season, putting it in the trailer in the fall. The
assembly process looks intimidating, but can be made easier.

This tip was passed on to me by a visiting Brit at Minden: With the
glider assembled, note the height of the main wheel off the ramp while
in the fuselage dolly, then measure the wing stand heights when they are
in position to remove all load from the spar locking pin. If you can
duplicate this configuration during each successive assembly, the spar
pin will slip right in after levering the wings together. He also
showed me how to lengthen the lever, for more leverage.

While it is true that your friends will all suddenly hear their wife
calling when you start to assemble your LAK-12, ignore them. I can get
mine assembled nearly completely on my own, using the factory wing
dolly. It's usually the last 3/4" of wing insertion where I need
someone to steady each tip while I lever it together.

It is accurate that each LAK-12 wing weighs 230# but remember that each
inner panel of a ASW-17 weighs 210#, which shows how much extra
complexity is required to produce a two piece wing. One piece wings are
an example of the KISS principle.

I found that towing my LAK-12 with a Dodge Grand Caravan plus tow
package, was the minimum acceptable vehicle. A Volvo wagon is marginal
above 50mph. A Chevrolet/GMC Subdivision is definitely better. I've
towed the 42' trailer empty behind a Honda Civic, which shocks the
Expedition owners towing jet skis.

The LAK-12 water ballast system (200 liters/50 gallons) has the easiest
fill/dump system that I've ever seen. No more wondering if the day is
going to be good enough to justify the effort of adding water. It fills
so quickly unattended that I can't complete washing the glider before
the ballast tanks become full. The polyurethane paint means it stands
up well to being tied down outside without covers. Polish it every few
seasons and it looks great.

I've been very happy with my LAK-12. It is very easy to fly which is
why the Soviet sport gliding federation would put newly licensed pilots
in it for XC training. Higher performance - fewer landouts. One thing
I learned from a Carl Herold XC camp is that gliders should be landed at
actual airstrips and not farm fields. I fly to keep a landable airstrip
within reach at all times. While I've not yet landed out, there have
been times where I've deviated to a landable airstrip with the plan that
I would either find lift and climb out to continue the task, or I would
land at the airstrip and call for a retrieve.

Best regards,
Ken
San Jose, CA

boy if landing out is such a crime i should be on death row.

wrote:
On May 12, 12:21 pm, Ken Ward wrote:
SNIP

boy if landing out is such a crime i should be on death row.

My Std Cirrus is 36 years old now.
Was first owned by Ted Pearson - who won the 1971 Nationals with her. Subsequent
owners also flew hard. She has many flights 500km, and a few over 700km.
Consequently the number of outlandings in harsh South African veldt and ploughed
fields and all sorts of "interesting" places is impressive.
She has had both wingtips bashed, the gear doors ripped off, the belly scraped
and a couple of canopies broken. All minor damage that has been easily repaired.
Probably the worst damage was on an airfield landing when I damaged a wing
leading edge.

This glider has LIVED.

She is still pretty, flies well and I have the confidence that you have to
really try to break a well built sailplane. OK my impression is that maybe
Schempp-Hirth are stronger than average, but in my experience outlandings seldom
result in damage or injury.

Outlandings are not something to aspire to, but they are certainly no crime.
They are part of soaring. A consequence of having fun - and occasionally the
source of fun. An ex world champion at a contest was pointing out a plethora of
landable fields around the contest task area. When asked how he knew about them
his simple answer was that he had landed in most of them at least once...

So maybe outlandings are an indicator of success too - If you aren't making a
few, you aren't trying hard enough to be really fast. Which limits what you can
do. The logical conclusion of that line of reasoning is the guys who never leave
the airfield.

wrote:

On May 12, 12:21 pm, Ken Ward wrote:

snip

I've been very happy with my LAK-12. It is very easy to fly which is
why the Soviet sport gliding federation would put newly licensed pilots
in it for XC training. Higher performance - fewer landouts. One thing
I learned from a Carl Herold XC camp is that gliders should be landed at
actual airstrips and not farm fields. I fly to keep a landable airstrip
within reach at all times. While I've not yet landed out, there have
been times where I've deviated to a landable airstrip with the plan that
I would either find lift and climb out to continue the task, or I would
land at the airstrip and call for a retrieve.

Best regards,
Ken
San Jose, CA

boy if landing out is such a crime i should be on death row.


You'd have been lynched with a piece of old tow rope by now. ;-)


Shawn

wrote:


boy if landing out is such a crime i should be on death row.

Only if you were doing in a LAK 12, because you'd be farther away and
much harder to remove from the field. In fact, you'd probably still be
sitting in field #7, waiting for the retrieve crew that will never come...

I notice some pilots use "landout" to mean "landing somewhere besides my
home airfield", even if they land at a large, paved, airport. I call
that "landing away" when I land on an airport/airstrip; a "landout" is
landing something else, like a farmer's field or a road.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

I googled this topic and could not find previous threads
on RAS, but I suspect they exist. I would expect most
experiences are similiar to mine...helped put the huge
wings on, but no time flying the bird. It would be
my experience that if one of these landed out in a
field where self-riggers would not operate...it would
be 3-4 strong friends to get it into a trailer. Assembly/disassem
bly reminded me of a Grob 103, although on hardtop
with self rigging gear and a good trailer I suspect
things would be much easier.

"Stewart Kissel" wrote in
message ...
I googled this topic and could not find previous threads
on RAS, but I suspect they exist. I would expect most
experiences are similiar to mine...helped put the huge
wings on, but no time flying the bird. It would be
my experience that if one of these landed out in a
field where self-riggers would not operate...it would
be 3-4 strong friends to get it into a trailer. Assembly/disassem
bly reminded me of a Grob 103, although on hardtop
with self rigging gear and a good trailer I suspect
things would be much easier.

Frank Whiteley, who owns a LAK-12, and I have discussed this.

If the one-man rigging system used "gate hinge" type root dolleys on the
trailer, then the wings could be swung out ~45 degrees to the
trailer/fuselage before the Udo-type wing dolly was attached to the wing CG.
Then, the wheels of the wing dolly needn't roll more than 4-6 feet when
rigging/derigging. One could pack a sheet of plywood to lay on soft ground
for the wing dolly wheels to roll on. That way, even if you landed in a
soft plowed field, rigging aids would still work.

Bill Daniels