slightly o.t. landing at big airports

I've been flying since 1987 as both a professional and recreational
pilot (more than 4000 hrs. logged) and have *never* paid a landing fee
regardless of airport size.

Have you landed at Boston or La Guardia?

Crikey, I've seen landing fees posted at non-towered airports, for
planes with turbo engines or more than one engine. Auburn-Lewiston ME
is one such. (I can't swear that anyone actually pays the fee,
however; I've only seen the sign.)

I just checked the AOPA Airport Directory. BOS (Boston) charges a
landing fee, amount unspecified. Same for LEW (Auburn-Lewiston),
though as I recall it doesn;t apply to lightplanes.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

very big gonads and be very very confident and knowledgable

Gonads aren't at all necessary, but it certainly helps (in all flying,
not just into large airports) to be confident and knowledgable.
Especially knowledgable

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...

Or believe or not, me in my ULTRALIGHT trike! I'm one of just
a tiny handful of pilots in the entire U.S. who can legally take my
tube 'n fabric, 400 pound little space probe into a major Class "B"
airport and mix it up with the Boeing 777's...


What makes you and the rest of the tiny handful so special? Anyone can
operate an ultralight in Class B airspace if they if they get prior
authorization from the ATC facility having jurisdiction over that airspace.


§103.17 Operations in certain airspace.
No person may operate an ultralight vehicle within Class A, Class B, Class
C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area
of Class E airspace designated for an airport unless that person has prior
authorization from the ATC facility having jurisdiction over that airspace.

[Amdt. 103-17, 56 FR 65662, Dec. 17, 1991]

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

Or believe or not, me in my ULTRALIGHT trike! I'm one of just
a tiny handful of pilots in the entire U.S. who can legally take my
tube 'n fabric, 400 pound little space probe into a major Class "B"
airport and mix it up with the Boeing 777's...

What makes you and the rest of the tiny handful so special? Anyone can
operate an ultralight in Class B airspace if they if they get prior
authorization from the ATC facility having jurisdiction over that airspace.

Good question. I loosely used the term "Ultralight" only so that folks
would know what type of A/C I was talking about. My particular
"ultralight" trike is actually no longer classified as such because I
have N-numbered it. Me and the "special tiny handful" whom have
N-numbers on our former "ultralights" (a few others like mine are
based in Southern California) enjoy all the privileges of GA pilots
and operate under Part 91, not Part 103 (see below).

§103.17 Operations in certain airspace.
No person may operate an ultralight vehicle within Class A, Class B, Class
C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area
of Class E airspace designated for an airport unless that person has prior
authorization from the ATC facility having jurisdiction over that airspace.

First, ultralight pilots (and I also use the term "pilots" loosely as
*most* ultralight "pilots" quite frankly suck!) can ask all they want,
but extremely doubtful they'll get permission from ATC to enter
any of those surface-based controlled airspace categories
mentioned in the FAR above. Whether or not a controller wants
to work with an ultralight is up to the discretion of the controller.
Second, even IF an ultralight pilot is granted permission (which they
wouldn't)...but *if* they would, they still cannot fly over congested
areas per 103.15 which stipulates thusly:

"No person may operate an ultralight vehicle over any
congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any
open air assembly of persons."

Because I operate under Part 91, I can base my ultralight trike
in the city (instead of way out in the boonies like 99.9-percent of
ultralights) and fly right over the top of the skyscrapers and
buildings downtown and land at Tampa Int'l, LAX, O'Hare, etc.
if I choose to do so (which I don't, but if I wanted to I could which
is extremely rare). I can also legally fly at night -- a privilege
that no other ultralight and/or microlight pilots (in Europe they're
called "microlights") on Earth enjoy besides us fortunate few.

My craft is the first and only one of its kind based in Florida
(or entire Southeastern U.S.A. for that matter) and I fly it almost
daily since I am able to conveniently hangar it downtown. It's
the greatest!

-Mike Marron

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

Good question. I loosely used the term "Ultralight" only so that folks
would know what type of A/C I was talking about. My particular
"ultralight" trike is actually no longer classified as such because I
have N-numbered it. Me and the "special tiny handful" whom have
N-numbers on our former "ultralights" (a few others like mine are
based in Southern California) enjoy all the privileges of GA pilots
and operate under Part 91, not Part 103 (see below).

If you've got an N-number you've also got an airworthiness certificate and
your trike is NOT an ultralight.

Er um...that's what I just said!

You're just another experimental aircraft operating under Part 91.

Except as an experimental glider (motorized) I don't require
a medical certificate. Big difference! Also, most people still think
I'm an ultralight which allows me to do certain things [ahem] that
your average experimental airplane pilot in his right mind would
dream of doing...

-Mike (nevermind) Marron

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:58:39 GMT, "Wally Samuelson"
wrote:

Most likely is an air taxi from somewhere nearby. Or someone just dropping
off or picking up a passenger. I don't know how they handle TSA scrrening
these days.

The problem is not so much landing as it is leaving. Not only do you have
to get ATC clearance, but the problem of getting sufficient separation to
avoid wake turbulence can cause major delays. You can find yourself
sitting in the grass waiting for a line of jets to clear.

Wally
been there done that

When in the pattern at John Wayne International in a 172 the tower
advised me to "increase speed or depart the pattern" as the DC-10
behind me was about to run over us :-) Landing can be an adventure.

Al Minyard

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...

Er um...that's what I just said!


Which indicates you knew you weren't operating an ultralight when you
submitted your original message.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

When talking to ATC on the radio we sometimes use the term
"experimental ultralight" so they know what to look for. In other
words, I was simply trying to be polite. Had I used the term "trike"
most folks wouldn't have known what I talking about. Comprende?

There are no "experimental ultralights". An ultralight vehicle by
definition has no airworthiness certificate, so it follows that an aircraft
with an experimental airworthiness certificate cannot be an ultralight.

I'm one of the "pioneers" who built my own trike and N-numbered
it so it follows that you're not telling me anything I don't already
know. As I said, when talking to ATC on the radio we sometimes
mix and match terms so-to-speak (e.g: "experimental ultralight") so
the nice folks in the control tower will know what type of flying
machine to look for and how to sequence other traffic in the airport
traffic area. In other words, the glider-trike program is new and
practically unheard of in the aviation community so if we call up ATC
and simply say, for example, "experimental seven bravo papa" chances
are controller(s) will think we're an Lancair, RV, Glasair, or some
other type of aerodynamically controlled 3-axis aircraft instead of a
tailless, slow-moving ultralight-type aircraft that resembles a big
kite or hang-glider with an engine on it. But if you're interested in
N-numbering an ultralight trike of your own as an experimental
"glider" (self-launched), obtaining a "self-launch" endorsement to
your glider rating (assuming you already have one), the name of the
one and only DE in the country who administers flight checks, a
cooperative DAR (e.g: one who actually knows what a "trike" is),
the advantages/disadvantages of the glider-trike program vis a vis
the Sport Pilot initiative including the creation of the new Private
Pilot weight shift category, etc. etc...I'd be more than happy to
answer any questions you might have. N-numbering an ultralight isn't
cheap and it's a lot of hard work but trust me, in the long run it's
well worth it if you love to fly. Comprende?

-Mike Marron
Commercial, Multi-Engine, CFII, A&P, UFI
(weightshift/fixed wing -- land & sea)

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...

I'm one of the "pioneers" who built my own trike and N-numbered
it so it follows that you're not telling me anything I don't already
know. As I said, when talking to ATC on the radio we sometimes
mix and match terms so-to-speak (e.g: "experimental ultralight") so
the nice folks in the control tower will know what type of flying
machine to look for and how to sequence other traffic in the airport
traffic area. In other words, the glider-trike program is new and
practically unheard of in the aviation community so if we call up ATC
and simply say, for example, "experimental seven bravo papa" chances
are controller(s) will think we're an Lancair, RV, Glasair, or some
other type of aerodynamically controlled 3-axis aircraft instead of a
tailless, slow-moving ultralight-type aircraft that resembles a big
kite or hang-glider with an engine on it. But if you're interested in
N-numbering an ultralight trike of your own as an experimental
"glider" (self-launched), obtaining a "self-launch" endorsement to
your glider rating (assuming you already have one), the name of the
one and only DE in the country who administers flight checks, a
cooperative DAR (e.g: one who actually knows what a "trike" is),
the advantages/disadvantages of the glider-trike program vis a vis
the Sport Pilot initiative including the creation of the new Private
Pilot weight shift category, etc. etc...I'd be more than happy to
answer any questions you might have. N-numbering an ultralight isn't
cheap and it's a lot of hard work but trust me, in the long run it's
well worth it if you love to fly. Comprende?


You're still not getting it. Identifying yourself as something you're not
doesn't help the nice folks in the control tower know what type of flying
machine to look for.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

I'm one of the "pioneers" who built my own trike and N-numbered
it so it follows that you're not telling me anything I don't already
know. As I said, when talking to ATC on the radio we sometimes
mix and match terms so-to-speak (e.g: "experimental ultralight") so
the nice folks in the control tower will know what type of flying
machine to look for and how to sequence other traffic in the airport
traffic area. In other words, the glider-trike program is new and
practically unheard of in the aviation community so if we call up ATC
and simply say, for example, "experimental seven bravo papa" chances
are controller(s) will think we're an Lancair, RV, Glasair, or some
other type of aerodynamically controlled 3-axis aircraft instead of a
tailless, slow-moving ultralight-type aircraft that resembles a big
kite or hang-glider with an engine on it. But if you're interested in
N-numbering an ultralight trike of your own as an experimental
"glider" (self-launched), obtaining a "self-launch" endorsement to
your glider rating (assuming you already have one), the name of the
one and only DE in the country who administers flight checks, a
cooperative DAR (e.g: one who actually knows what a "trike" is),
the advantages/disadvantages of the glider-trike program vis a vis
the Sport Pilot initiative including the creation of the new Private
Pilot weight shift category, etc. etc...I'd be more than happy to
answer any questions you might have. N-numbering an ultralight isn't
cheap and it's a lot of hard work but trust me, in the long run it's
well worth it if you love to fly. Comprende?

You're still not getting it. Identifying yourself as something you're not
doesn't help the nice folks in the control tower know what type of flying
machine to look for.

Er um, I'm afraid you're the one whose clueless. Please
post your number of hours logged in experimental trikes
right here --____________


-Mike (newbies, ya' just gotta' love 'em!) Marron