Tow cars and trailers

FWIW, my tow car is an ancient Volvo wagon that got 23 mpg on the
mountain grade tow mentioned in my last post. The Volvo has a long
overhang, which means I don't tow above 70, but that's fine by me
(I've been busted twice in Calfironia for high speed towing), and I
can sleep in it. Not elegant but a mostly reliable efficient road
warier.

One additional consideration is to think further outside the box.
What about using public transportation,
bicycling, or telecommuting for your daily grind?

Where I live, this is not outside, but pretty much in the center of the
box. But we're getting OT.

On May 17, 6:07 pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
Well, gas is $3.50/Gal in many parts of the US and who is to say it won't be
$4/gal next summer. This is starting to hurt - and getting me to think of a
more economical vehicle.

Yes, go for a more economical car. As others mention, the Passat and
Volvo XC wagon both make good tow vehicles. A few members from my club
use them to tow from the midwest out to Utah every year. One reported
that his Passat 1.8 T tiptronic with a Cobra trailer averaged 25-27
mpg at 75 mph, AC on. They get 32-34 mpg without the trailer.

My Audi A6 quatto wagon with 2.8 gas V-6 will get 20 mpg with a boxy
Minden-fab trailer, 27 mpg without at 75 mph. Not great, but not too
bad either.

I will consider a TDI for my next vehicle. The torque is massive and
the economy unsurpassed. If you ever drive the autobahn you will soon
notice that TDI's are typically going faster than gas. They work just
fine at high load and speed. Hybrids only pay-off around town.

One small note on the Passats: the older 1998-2005 model years used a
wonderful 4 link front suspension, the same as found on the Audi A4
and A6. The ride and handling is far superior to a MacPherson strut
design, IMO. The new 2006+ Passats went back to MacPhersons.....too
bad.

Good luck to you,
Adam

Closed Trailer with a Std Cirrus in it is 680kg (54% is easily inside the
85%)The sail effect is a bigger decider for me - the trailer can push a smaller
car around when you are exposed to gusts at speed.

I have towed one of those lightweight Nimbus 3 jobbies in a Pfeiffer
trailer with the 2.5L Subaru Outback. It handled better than towing it
with a slightly older (97) Chevy Tahoe 5.7L , ESPECIALLY in side wind
gusts. I imagine this is due to suspension tuning, or lack thereof on
the Chevy's part.
Currently towing a longer and equally light Cobra AS-H26E trailer
with the same car. The biggest towing problem has been "citations of
excessive cross-country progress" awarded by the Highway Patrol.
Both Paul Bikle and Bob Harris' long standing World altitude records
were set within 50km of home, to put the hill and wind situation in
perspective.
Jim

On May 18, 2:59 am, " wrote:
On May 18, 3:14 pm, Paul Hanson





wrote:
At 00:48 18 May 2007, Ed Winchester wrote:

Bill Daniels wrote:
'anonymous' wrote in message
. ch...
Bill Daniels schrieb:

Many of us drive larger vehicles than we might otherwise
choose simply to
pull our trailers 1% of the time. 99% of the time,
we could be driving,
say, a Volkswagen Passat TDI diesel getting 45mpg.
The Volkswagen Passat TDI is a fairly common tow vehicle
in Europe. No
need for a SUV. But then, this has been discussed
here many times.

Yes, I know that. However, it's not common in the
US bacause of the higher,
hotter, longer trip conditions here. Almost any trip
in the western US will
include at least one long, steep grade starting with
temperatures above 40C
that may climb to 3600 meters ASL. I know of one
VW that arrived as
essentially junk after one trip. The next time I
saw that pilot, he was
driving a much bigger tow vehicle.

If you prefer the manufacturer's position, here's
a comment from USA Today's
James R. Healey::
'Back to the Passat towing spec question: VW just
called to say towing's not
recommended with the Passat and that's why no towing
spec is provided. Would
towing void the warranty? Uh, um, well, probably not,
VW says, as long as
you tow light loads with a proper hitch installed
and used per the
aftermarket supplier's recommendations. Unless, of
course, some damage is
the obvious result of towing. Sounds to me as if anybody
who wants to tow
should choose a different car. Too much 'maybe' factor
with Passat. '

The VW Passat TDI diesel is a great car. I just wouldn't
abuse it by towing
a glider trailer.

Bill Daniels

Bill,

I have to agree with Dan. With the TDI (turbocharged
diesel injection)
the elevation would have almost no effect. Yes, pulling
up the hills
would work the engine a bit, but gearing down and watching
the temps
should cover that.

Ed

I think we must be careful not to use too light of
a vehicle to tow our glider trailers with. Although
the 2:1 ratio some trailer rental companies use ('U-Haul
used to require 2:1 ratio between the towing vehicle
and the trailer. Stated differently, the towing vehicle
must weigh twice as much as the trailer and its contents.
To increase rentals, U-Haul lowered that ratio from
2:1 to 1:1. This change decreased stability and increased
accidents'.--fromhttp://www.beasleyallen.com) may
be suitable for short coupled trailers, our glider
trailers although admittedly light in weight, have
much greater moments due to the longer arm, so for
me at least, that unfortunately rules out small, lightweight
super efficient vehicles, due to safety concerns. I
did find this in another thread though, talking about
glider towing with a Toyota Highlander Hybrid:
'I'll add my two cents to this thread. I towed my glider
trailer last weekend with a HH 4wd. Glider trailers
are tricky to tow because of their length (28') and
the fact that they have a lot of sail area. Weight
is about 1800 lbs. The rig was rock solid in mountainous
terrain with a 25 mph crosswind. Was at least as good
as my previous vehicle, a Grand Cherokee. I am quite
pleased with the performance. Overall, I am getting
about 26-27 MPG'.
found in:http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0daea6

I like the idea of good gas mileage, since I tow mine
enough for that to be a major budget concern, for me.
(Ca to Memphis last Feb, Ca to Oshkosh later, plus
several milk runs...ouch) I currently tow with a Chevy
Astro Van, and get around 18-19mpg, doing normal interstate
speeds (70-80mph), so 26-27mpg does not sound too bad,
although I would need a motel when I got where I was
going because the Highlander Hybrid does not sound
big enough for me to camp in with my dog while on site.
It does sound like a good possible solution for some
of you though.

I do really like the idea of some sort of drive-assist
system in the trailer though, an idea I've considered
before, although my gas mileage without the trailer
is near the same in the Astro. Somebody needs to develop
a hybrid van, with good towing capacity, coupled to
a trailer that assists and then we would be on to something.
Although, the excessive cost of this combo would probably
outweigh the extra money that would be saved on gas,
it seems like a step in the right direction none the
less.

While we're on the subject, any comments on the Lexus RX hybrid as a
tow vehicle?

Ramy

Paul Hanson
"Do the usual, unusually well"--Len Niemi- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A little sideways on this thread ,how does a Chevy Blazer 4.3 litre,
handle the towing loads as I am considering one as a tow
vehicle ,pulling
a tube type of trailer for a Ventus b or Nimbus 2 model. Any bad
reports or known problems I should be aware of .
gary- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ramy wrote:
While we're on the subject, any comments on the Lexus RX hybrid as a
tow vehicle?

Don't be taken in by the hype. If you consider whole of life energy
costs then hybrids are not very green at all. See

http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy

and download the "Dust to Dust" report for details.

The problem is that, while hybrids may give better fuel economy, that's
easily outweighed by the extra energy costs in building and recycling
them. For example, the Ford Focus I drive has a lifetime energy cost of
under 25% that of a Prius despite a 1:1.6 ratio of gas burnt per mile.

On topic: my Focus, a 2 litre automatic estate, has shown itself to be a
good tow car for a Std Libelle in a closed trailer though mileage does
suffer while towing.



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On May 18, 8:18 pm, Adam wrote:

One small note on the Passats: the older 1998-2005 model years used a
wonderful 4 link front suspension, the same as found on the Audi A4
and A6. The ride and handling is far superior to a MacPherson strut
design, IMO. The new 2006+ Passats went back to MacPhersons.....too
bad.

Way O/T... the new Passat is a distinct "downgrade" from the previous
model, as it was taking sales away from the Audi A4. The engines are
still identical between the two brands.

Back O/T, don't underestimate the effect that noseweight has on
stability. I've been a passenger in tow car where a K21 was actually
lifting up the hitch, rather than pushing down. Not good. Conversely,
a trip with a Janus (slightly long trailer, and actually with a
smaller and lighter towcar) was much pleasanter experience because it
had a proper noseweight.


Dan

Volkswagon, Ford, Mercedes and Fiat (and others) all make great small vans, diesel powered that will tow large trailers easily. Nowadays they drive like a large family sedan!
There is tons of space for extra gear in the back, they run on the sniff of fuel, pull like a 14 year old and you can sleep in the back very comfortably if you need to.

Go try one!


Bagger

Consider the third generation (in America) Toyota RAV4.
It's got a 268 h.p.(!) V-6 that gets about 27 mpg
with four wheel drive (not towing).

When my 2000 Accord has to be replaced, I will definitely
consider this vehicle.

On a recent trek with trailers in tow, me with my Accord
and a friend with his RAV4, we started the trip with
full tanks of gas and we ended the trip a few hundred
miles later and tanked up. His Toyota used less fuel
than my Honda did. SUV vs. sedan and the SUV wins.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina

bagmaker wrote:
Volkswagon, Ford, Mercedes and Fiat (and others) all make great small
vans, diesel powered that will tow large trailers easily. Nowadays they
drive like a large family sedan!
There is tons of space for extra gear in the back, they run on the
sniff of fuel, pull like a 14 year old and you can sleep in the back
very comfortably if you need to.

Unfortunately, none of these small vans are available in the US...

Marc