Directional control after touchdown...

Dan wrote:
What are the proper control inputs to correct the situation?

Yoke full aft, full right aileron, left rudder as necessary to maintain
directional control, flaps up.

On May 20, 6:34 am, john smith wrote:
Dan wrote:
What are the proper control inputs to correct the situation?

Yoke full aft, full right aileron, left rudder as necessary to maintain
directional control, flaps up.

OK, so you're saying that based on the situation, I should trust the
ATIS, not the fact that the plane is drifting right? Should the
ailerons _always_ be into the wind regardless of actual aircraft
drift?

How much rudder in one direction or the other can a tricycle gear
light plane take without groundlooping?

I am working on a checkout in this C182 after about 400 hours in
Pipers. Compared to what I am used to, the Cessna ground handling
(especially after touchdown) seems very squirrley. I've had the same
experience with the couple hours I have in 152s and 172s as well.

--Dan

Could it be the ground effect differences between low wing and high wing
aircraft that are contributing to this issue?


"Dan" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 20, 6:34 am, john smith wrote:
Dan wrote:
What are the proper control inputs to correct the situation?

Yoke full aft, full right aileron, left rudder as necessary to maintain
directional control, flaps up.

OK, so you're saying that based on the situation, I should trust the
ATIS, not the fact that the plane is drifting right? Should the
ailerons _always_ be into the wind regardless of actual aircraft
drift?

How much rudder in one direction or the other can a tricycle gear
light plane take without groundlooping?

I am working on a checkout in this C182 after about 400 hours in
Pipers. Compared to what I am used to, the Cessna ground handling
(especially after touchdown) seems very squirrley. I've had the same
experience with the couple hours I have in 152s and 172s as well.

--Dan

"Bill Denton" wrote in message


Could it be the ground effect differences between low wing and high
wing aircraft that are contributing to this issue?

"Dan" wrote in message
oups.com...

I am working on a checkout in this C182 after about 400 hours in
Pipers. Compared to what I am used to, the Cessna ground handling
(especially after touchdown) seems very squirrley. I've had the same
experience with the couple hours I have in 152s and 172s as well.

My guess is the difference in nose gear steering. Skylanes use a bungee to
"persuade" the nose gear to turn in a given direction while the typical
Piper nosegear is much more authoritative.

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/blogs/TknoFlyer
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://openspf.org
____________________

Bill Denton wrote:
Could it be the ground effect differences between low wing and high wing
aircraft that are contributing to this issue?


No, I noticed that right away after I bought my Bonanza. With my 182 it
was second nature to manipulate the aileron for the wind while taxiing.
In the Bo I don't bother as there's no reason to. I simply hold the
yoke so the controls don't get slammed around in the wind. With a high
wing the wing is out there on a longer lever plus the wheel track is a
little narrower.

"Newps" wrote in message
. ..


Bill Denton wrote:
Could it be the ground effect differences between low wing and high wing
aircraft that are contributing to this issue?


No, I noticed that right away after I bought my Bonanza. With my 182 it
was second nature to manipulate the aileron for the wind while taxiing.
In the Bo I don't bother as there's no reason to. I simply hold the
yoke so the controls don't get slammed around in the wind. With a high
wing the wing is out there on a longer lever plus the wheel track is a
little narrower.

I am pretty sure that there is also more wind six feet from the graound than
there is three feet from the ground.

Presumably there are plenty of statistics on the subject, although I have no
idea where to look or would would make a good search argument for and
internet search.

Peter

Peter Dohm wrote:




I am pretty sure that there is also more wind six feet from the graound than
there is three feet from the ground.

You're kidding.




Presumably there are plenty of statistics on the subject,


You'll never find that as it isn't true.

Newps wrote:


Peter Dohm wrote:




I am pretty sure that there is also more wind six feet from the
graound than
there is three feet from the ground.

You're kidding.




Presumably there are plenty of statistics on the subject,


You'll never find that as it isn't true.

It absolutely is true. Wind velocity drops dramatically as it
approaches a surface.

Matt

Dan wrote:
On May 20, 6:34 am, john smith wrote:
Dan wrote:
What are the proper control inputs to correct the situation?
Yoke full aft, full right aileron, left rudder as necessary to maintain
directional control, flaps up.

OK, so you're saying that based on the situation, I should trust the
ATIS, not the fact that the plane is drifting right? Should the
ailerons _always_ be into the wind regardless of actual aircraft
drift?

As a previous poster wrote, ATIS is only a guide. Keep in mind that the
wind is only measured at one place on the airport.

Ailerons should always be properly deflected when taxiing, taking off or
landing. What direction to apply them and how much will depend on the
direction the aircraft is moving and the direction the wind is striking
the aircraft from.

Taxiing with a tailwind is different than taxiing with a headwind or
crosswind. Your instructor should have covered that with you in your
primary training. If they didn't find a new instructor.

The best recommendation is to get some taildragger training with an
experienced taildragger instructor. THAT will really teach you about
proper control position and use in an aircraft.

How much rudder in one direction or the other can a tricycle gear
light plane take without groundlooping?

You only apply as much rudder as necessary to maintain control in the
direction you want to go.

Dan wrote:
On May 20, 6:34 am, john smith wrote:
Dan wrote:
What are the proper control inputs to correct the situation?
Yoke full aft, full right aileron, left rudder as necessary to maintain
directional control, flaps up.

OK, so you're saying that based on the situation, I should trust the
ATIS, not the fact that the plane is drifting right? Should the
ailerons _always_ be into the wind regardless of actual aircraft
drift?

No, you should know from which side the wind is coming before you ever
touch down. This is very easily detected while on final. And if you
slip to accommodate the crosswind (which is the correct way in this
airplane and almost all others), then you know exactly what is up before
you ever touch down and you also know if the crosswind component is
within the control authority of the airplane.


How much rudder in one direction or the other can a tricycle gear
light plane take without groundlooping?

Quite a bit, but if you start to ground loop, then back off! One thing
my primary instructor stress was that you ALWAYS apply whatever control
input is required to get the performance you desire. You don't fly to
some preplanned target. He was not a fly by the numbers pilot and,
while I appreciate the need for that in many high performance airplanes,
his basic philosophy is sound. The conditions are what they are, not
what you planned for or what you wish they were. Fly the conditions,
not some preconceived notion of what they should be.


I am working on a checkout in this C182 after about 400 hours in
Pipers. Compared to what I am used to, the Cessna ground handling
(especially after touchdown) seems very squirrley. I've had the same
experience with the couple hours I have in 152s and 172s as well.

My Skylane wasn't squirrelly at all. Typically, it is the pilot that is
squirrelly. :-)

Matt