current small aircraft market????

Longworth wrote:
On May 19, 10:36 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
I was flat out unable to find this coverage. If you find someone who
will write such a policy, please let me know. I didn't try Lloyds of
London, but I called AOPA and a also private insurance broker that
supposedly can deal with any company other than AVEMCO (which is who I
think AOPA uses) and both told me that $1MM smooth simply wasn't available.

Matt

Matt,
We have had $1M smooth with USAIG the last several years starting
when we both had less than 500hrs and without instrument ratings.
Last year, we checked around and found that AOPA agreed to offer $1M
smooth with AIG but with a somewhat higher premium than USAIG so we
stayed with USAIG. Previously, AOPA told us that they could not offer
$1M smooth, maybe the change had something to do with the fact that we
got over 500hrs and with instrument ratings. We stayed with USAIG
this year but switched agency since the previous one could not get us
additional insured with waiver of subrogation free of charge for Guy
Maher, a CFI specialized in Cardinal operation (whom we plan to take a
training course this summer). Through the new agency, I learned that
we could reduce our premium from $1545 to $1311 with $2500 deductible
for the hull coverage (insured at $60K). This is about the same as
what we got before with AIG for the $1M with $100K sublimit.

I wonder if that is because you had an existing policy? I have 600+
hours and am instrument rated also, but I checked on insurance just last
January and was told flat-out that I couldn't get $1M smooth initially.

I sent and looked and I kept the email:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I emailed you a quote for liability only, I hope you received it. The
company I quoted is AIG. The highest limit they will offer at this time is
the industry standard 1mil/100K. They will require at least 50 hours in
the make/model before they would offer higher limits, maybe next year. If
you have any more questions, or wish to bind the coverage, just give me a
call.

Regards,

We cannot accept bind and change requests via email.

Jeanie Shogren
Account Executive
AOPA Insurance Agency, Inc.
P. O. Box 9170
Wichita, KS 67277
Phone: 1-800-622-2672, ext. 177
Fax: 316-942-0091

Matt - it looks like their issue was 50 Hrs in type at the time of the
request. Also, you were asking for straight liability only - no hull
coverage. Were you approaching the request as a renter?

--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
....

I sent and looked and I kept the email:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I emailed you a quote for liability only, I hope you received it. The
company I quoted is AIG. The highest limit they will offer at this time
is
the industry standard 1mil/100K. They will require at least 50 hours in
the make/model before they would offer higher limits, maybe next year. If
you have any more questions, or wish to bind the coverage, just give me a
call.

....

Jim Carter wrote:
Matt - it looks like their issue was 50 Hrs in type at the time of the
request. Also, you were asking for straight liability only - no hull
coverage. Were you approaching the request as a renter?


I asked for full coverage at first including $1MM smooth liability (see
below), but after I fell out of my chair seeing the premium and they
hadn't quoted the $1MM smooth per my request. I then asked again what
liability only would be with $1MM smooth since they had given no reason
for not quoting the requested covered in round 1. I then got the
response that they wouldn't write that coverage so I passed on purchase
of the 210. If I can't fly on company business, my person "business
case" for buying an airplane is in much poorer shape...

Matt



I. AIRCRAFT DESCRIPTION & PHYSICAL DAMAGE COVERAGE

Aircraft 1 of 1
NJAS3068 1966 CESSNA 210F
Number of Seats 6
Insured Value $70,000
Hull Coverage Full Ground & Flight
Deductible In Motion/Ingestion: $100
Deductible Not In Motion: $100

Approved Pilots for Aircraft NJAS3068 with requirements if applicable
Matthew Whiting
Any other pilots: Any private pilot or better having an instrument
rating having a minimum of 750 total logged hours including 250 hours in
retractable gear aircraft and at least 25 hours in the make and model.

Premium for Aircraft NJAS3068 is $3,785.00

__________________________________________________ __________
II. LEGAL LIABILITY PROTECTION - Limits of Liability
Single Limit Each Occurrence Including Passengers $1,000,000
Sub Limit per Passenger if applicable $100,000

__________________________________________________ __________
III. MEDICAL PAYMENTS Each passenger $1,000

Total Annual Policy Premium $3,785.00

NJAS3068 1966 CESSNA 210F
Insured Value $70,000
Premium for Aircraft NJAS3068 is $3,785.00

That's a major reason I didn't buy a turbo 210 I looked at a few years
ago. Insurance on any 210 was outrageous, according to my broker. I'm
paying less of a yearly premium than quoted above, have 1MM smooth, an
airframe that's 25 years newer and a hull value almost four times that
quoted above. This for my Mooney Bravo.

--
Ken Reed
M20M, N9124X

Ken Reed wrote:
NJAS3068 1966 CESSNA 210F
Insured Value $70,000
Premium for Aircraft NJAS3068 is $3,785.00

That's a major reason I didn't buy a turbo 210 I looked at a few years
ago. Insurance on any 210 was outrageous, according to my broker. I'm
paying less of a yearly premium than quoted above, have 1MM smooth, an
airframe that's 25 years newer and a hull value almost four times that
quoted above. This for my Mooney Bravo.


Any idea of why the difference is so dramatic? I thought the 210 had a
decent accident rate.

I'll probably end up with a 182 again as that way I have the required 50
hours in type.


Matt

Matt Whiting wrote:
Ken Reed wrote:
NJAS3068 1966 CESSNA 210F
Insured Value $70,000
Premium for Aircraft NJAS3068 is $3,785.00

That's a major reason I didn't buy a turbo 210 I looked at a few
years ago. Insurance on any 210 was outrageous, according to my
broker. I'm paying less of a yearly premium than quoted above, have
1MM smooth, an airframe that's 25 years newer and a hull value
almost four times that quoted above. This for my Mooney Bravo.


Any idea of why the difference is so dramatic? I thought the 210 had
a decent accident rate.

I'll probably end up with a 182 again as that way I have the required
50 hours in type.


Matt

6 vs 4 seats at least on the later models.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
Matt Whiting wrote:
Ken Reed wrote:
NJAS3068 1966 CESSNA 210F
Insured Value $70,000
Premium for Aircraft NJAS3068 is $3,785.00

That's a major reason I didn't buy a turbo 210 I looked at a few
years ago. Insurance on any 210 was outrageous, according to my
broker. I'm paying less of a yearly premium than quoted above, have
1MM smooth, an airframe that's 25 years newer and a hull value
almost four times that quoted above. This for my Mooney Bravo.


Any idea of why the difference is so dramatic? I thought the 210 had
a decent accident rate.

I'll probably end up with a 182 again as that way I have the required
50 hours in type.


Matt

6 vs 4 seats at least on the later models.
When was the 210 a four-seater?

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
Matt Whiting wrote:
Ken Reed wrote:
NJAS3068 1966 CESSNA 210F
Insured Value $70,000
Premium for Aircraft NJAS3068 is $3,785.00
That's a major reason I didn't buy a turbo 210 I looked at a few
years ago. Insurance on any 210 was outrageous, according to my
broker. I'm paying less of a yearly premium than quoted above, have
1MM smooth, an airframe that's 25 years newer and a hull value
almost four times that quoted above. This for my Mooney Bravo.

Any idea of why the difference is so dramatic? I thought the 210 had
a decent accident rate.

I'll probably end up with a 182 again as that way I have the required
50 hours in type.


Matt

6 vs 4 seats at least on the later models.



Ah, yes, I forgot that Mooney is a 4 seater.

Matt

On May 20, 8:48 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
Ken Reed wrote:
NJAS3068 1966 CESSNA 210F
Insured Value $70,000
Premium for Aircraft NJAS3068 is $3,785.00

That's a major reason I didn't buy a turbo 210 I looked at a few years
ago. Insurance on any 210 was outrageous, according to my broker. I'm
paying less of a yearly premium than quoted above, have 1MM smooth, an
airframe that's 25 years newer and a hull value almost four times that
quoted above. This for my Mooney Bravo.

Any idea of why the difference is so dramatic? I thought the 210 had a
decent accident rate.

I'll probably end up with a 182 again as that way I have the required 50
hours in type.

Matt


Generally the losses insurance companies see in Cessna 210 involve
landing gear failures, gear up landings, losing control on landing or
over-running the end of the runway. These losses themselves aren't so
bad, but the cost to repair a Cessna 210 is going up rapidly every
year.

$3785 annual premium for a Cessna 210 for a low-time pilot doesn't
seem out of line. If you can get through the first year without a
loss and fly a lot, your premium would go down substantially the next
year.

That's a major reason I didn't buy a turbo 210 I looked at a few years
ago. Insurance on any 210 was outrageous, according to my broker. I'm
paying less of a yearly premium than quoted above, have 1MM smooth, an
airframe that's 25 years newer and a hull value almost four times that
quoted above. This for my Mooney Bravo.

Any idea of why the difference is so dramatic? I thought the 210 had a
decent accident rate.

My broker just calls it a 'high loss rate.'

--
Ken Reed
M20M, N9124X