One, big sh*t-eating grin...!

Jay Honeck wrote:
Just a few hours after his lesson he was lambasting me for not
teaching him to "lead his turns with the rudder".

Bob Noel wrote:
eh?
You need to use rudder to lead turns in a Cherokee?
I only flew a C-150 once, did most of my primary in a C-172,
and don't remember my CFI telling me to lead my turns.

That's because neither you nor your instructor were/are taildragger pilots.

Come again? I've got about 2300 hours in taildraggers and once they are a
sheet of paper off the runway, they fly just like a nosewheel airplane.

Enlighten me. My first fifteen years of flying must have been all wrong.

Jim

--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown


"john smith" wrote in message
...


That's because neither you nor your instructor were/are taildragger
pilots.

Jim, read the attributes for the postings before thinking that they
apply to you.
I responded to Bob who had responded to Jay.
I deliberately arranged the response to show the order and by whom the
statements were made before I sent the posting.
Your apology is accepted. ;-))

Jay Honeck wrote:
Just a few hours after his lesson he was lambasting me for not
teaching him to "lead his turns with the rudder".

Bob Noel wrote:
eh?
You need to use rudder to lead turns in a Cherokee?
I only flew a C-150 once, did most of my primary in a C-172,
and don't remember my CFI telling me to lead my turns.

That's because neither you nor your instructor were/are taildragger pilots.

RST Engineering wrote:
Come again? I've got about 2300 hours in taildraggers and once they are a
sheet of paper off the runway, they fly just like a nosewheel airplane.
Enlighten me. My first fifteen years of flying must have been all wrong.

In article ,
john smith wrote:

eh?
You need to use rudder to lead turns in a Cherokee?
I only flew a C-150 once, did most of my primary in a C-172,
and don't remember my CFI telling me to lead my turns.

That's because neither you nor your instructor were/are taildragger pilots.

Is leading the turn something a taildragger has to do on the ground?

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

Bob Noel wrote:
eh?
You need to use rudder to lead turns in a Cherokee?
I only flew a C-150 once, did most of my primary in a C-172,
and don't remember my CFI telling me to lead my turns.

john smith wrote:
That's because neither you nor your instructor were/are taildragger pilots.

Bob Noel wrote:
Is leading the turn something a taildragger has to do on the ground?


That is correct. You see, because you sit in the front of the airplane
and the wheel that steers is attached to the back of the airplane, if
you want to change direction, you will want to be there before the
tailwheel gets there. Failure to do so results in what is commonly
referred to as a ground loop. :-))

In article ,
john smith wrote:

Bob Noel wrote:
eh?
You need to use rudder to lead turns in a Cherokee?
I only flew a C-150 once, did most of my primary in a C-172,
and don't remember my CFI telling me to lead my turns.

john smith wrote:
That's because neither you nor your instructor were/are taildragger pilots.

Bob Noel wrote:
Is leading the turn something a taildragger has to do on the ground?


That is correct. You see, because you sit in the front of the airplane
and the wheel that steers is attached to the back of the airplane, if
you want to change direction, you will want to be there before the
tailwheel gets there. Failure to do so results in what is commonly
referred to as a ground loop. :-))

so why did Jay's son complain about leading a turn?

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

In article ,
Bob Noel wrote:

In article ,
john smith wrote:

Bob Noel wrote:
eh?
You need to use rudder to lead turns in a Cherokee?
I only flew a C-150 once, did most of my primary in a C-172,
and don't remember my CFI telling me to lead my turns.

john smith wrote:
That's because neither you nor your instructor were/are taildragger
pilots.

Bob Noel wrote:
Is leading the turn something a taildragger has to do on the ground?


That is correct. You see, because you sit in the front of the airplane
and the wheel that steers is attached to the back of the airplane, if
you want to change direction, you will want to be there before the
tailwheel gets there. Failure to do so results in what is commonly
referred to as a ground loop. :-))

so why did Jay's son complain about leading a turn?

The first answer is, in a taildragger your don't use the brakes to turn.
If you do use the brakes, you are going too fast.

The second answer is, the instructor was referring to controlling the
aircraft in flight. In a taildragger, you lead a turn with rudder before
adding the aileron.

John,

The second answer is, the instructor was referring to controlling the
aircraft in flight. In a taildragger, you lead a turn with rudder before
adding the aileron.


You still don't get Bob's point, I'm afraid. The point is: How would the
air and the plane "know" that it's a taildragger, once the plane is flying?
And thusly, how would the plane "know" to behave differently in the air
because it has a different wheel (!) configuration?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

In article ,
Thomas Borchert wrote:

You still don't get Bob's point, I'm afraid. The point is: How would the
air and the plane "know" that it's a taildragger, once the plane is flying?
And thusly, how would the plane "know" to behave differently in the air
because it has a different wheel (!) configuration?

It's the way the airplanes were designed then and now.
Alot of it has to do with adverse yaw and how the ailerons were hinged
then compared to how they are hinged now.
Find an old Champ and see how much of the forward portion of the aileron
extends above/below the wing surface when the aileron is deflected down
on the upgoing wing/down on the down going wing.

The first answer is, in a taildragger your don't use the brakes to turn.
If you do use the brakes, you are going too fast.

If your instructor didn't teach you how to do a one-wingspan turn in a
taildragger, your education is not complete. One of the great things about
a taildragger is the ability to turn in tight spaces. I'd go get some
tailwheel time from a real taildragger instructor.



The second answer is, the instructor was referring to controlling the
aircraft in flight. In a taildragger, you lead a turn with rudder before
adding the aileron.

I'll not argue with you for the same reason I don't mudwrestle with pigs.
However, just for our amusement why don't you give us the aerodynamics of
the differences in inflight turns between taildraggers and trainingwheel
aircraft.

Jim